Theres no way you fully read the first 2 parts Im calling cap LOL...But you know what I dont blame you for not reading all that.....There's so much evidence it all could not be contained in one single post....or two.... This post discusses lore of the newly released raid and or the lore books themselves aren't in Ishtar yet I think. So ugh....SPOILER ALERT I guess...
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aH78y01csva-ZH4os2Xzmp8O_G-ogcqPgcELnbGUHrA/edit?usp=sharing
A gardener and a winnower collaborate to create a protein. Whose hand is it in the design, that shortens one life to extend the rest?
This is p53 aka the Veil. I believe p53 is the Veil. And I'm not going to explain why if you know you know. That requires potentially another multi part post. Nope not gonna do it!
It is the winnower that discovers the first knife, but it is not done without the gardener. This, too, is a tradition: a knife does not come to exist without something that must be cut. A woody stem, a colored petal, a vital vessel. The first victims of the blade.
There was never any option for the knife to not exist in the garden: it was only ever a matter of time and opportunity. And as for the shape of the knife itself—No. That is enough.
This is the Witness. The First Knife. The shape of the first knife is the Witness. A wicked shape as Savathun describes it The Witness is ancient because it was created in the Garden. In the Field of Possibility it is a tool or child of Darkness. One that was created out of fury and anger towards the Traveler's rebuke.
I think sometimes if I dream long enough, I will understand this Witness better, the Voice not of the Darkness, yet in it. But I do not have the time to spend in dreaming.
To understand this listless scavenger that claws through our world and cherishes the destruction it leaves as transcendent…
Risky, as all valuable things are.
I know one other thing from the Witness, garnered in those bare moments I touched it. Not a why or a how, no home or treasures to point at weakness. Only this:
Beneath all else, that being cradles rage enough to burn the stars themselves to cinders.
The power and the offer, the curse and the salvation. Were they all the same in the end? The same thing, the same Voice in the Darkness?
If nothing else, I know at least that thing, that grasp which caught me, isn't the same as the Darkness itself. Otherwise, I'd never be able to bear my Guardian's touch. But: I can settle in his hand and, sometimes… sometimes we still understand each other, like meaning moves from me to him without the need for words at all.
Beneath all else, that being cradles rage enough to burn the stars themselves to cinders.
I think the voice, that wrong presence in the Darkness, thought that forgetting his team would make him malleable, but it's the other way around, really. Without them, my Guardian is impossible to shift aside. Even for me.
If the man agrees, he puts himself in the wanderer's power, ceding his own choices for the implicit promise that this is the correct road, the safe road. And if he disagrees? Let us say that the wanderer draws a knife. The man may therefore be made to take the dexter road. But now if the knife goes away, the man will certainly flee. And perhaps even if the knife remains, the man may tire of being threatened and decide the risk is worth fleeing. In this way, the wanderer erodes their own power. If the wanderer says, "The wind has said that you should take the road of my choosing," will the man accept the choice made for him?
The Witness is the Voice in the Darkness. The First Knife. The doppelganger seen at the end of Shadowkeep. And it is a furious/wrathful/and manipulative being.
A shadowed agony among the flowers. We trampled the petals beneath our feet. We stomped the fruit to pulp, and we ground the seeds into the dust.
Our trampling feet made waves in the garden, which were the fluctuations around which the infant universes coalesced their first structures. The dilaton field yawned beneath existence. Symmetries snapped like glass. Like creases, flaws in space-time collected filaments of dark matter that inhaled and kindled the first galaxies of suns.
//It is knownseenpredicted that a primary function of irresolvableirrecoverable presences is to trample. Flowers growing / damage repairing / threat unresolved. Function called: escalation. Iteration. Function: winnow. Function: simplify. Function: flatten.//The first defense is offense.
They are domesticated things, made in a form. As soon as something is called a garden, it is shaped. The plants require the hand of a gardener, for they have become weak and dependent on tender care. They require the hand of a winnower, to cut away the dross, for they are too incapable to do it themselves. In absence of a hand, either the flowers themselves must rise up to wield the knife, or the garden will resolve to meaningless wilderness.
Dark Matter was born from the infighting between the Traveler and the Witness. The Dust was also present due to this fighting the trampling of flowers. The flowers represent all life in the garden. The Witness is an alamgamation of this life. There's a whole other can of worms about the Nine but long story short. The Nine are this Hyperquantum/Dark MatteSpace Dust/Thought based Amalgam of life. The Witness being the first knife is likely made from the same thing they are and or Starhorse, which ties in wonderfully with how egregore works. And or why Savathun took an interest in the Nine and blackhole spaces as a means to counter the Witness. Remember how one of the Nine rose up to seize the Traveler in the Red War campaign? This is more or less the Witness did but the Darkness spin off of it.

TIMESTAMP
Looking to shrink my keyboard collection. Prices don't include shipping, will use Paypal G&S only- G&S fee already included in asking price. Make an offer to bundle. Comment before PM, thanks.

Keyboards:

Keyboard	Description	Price	Sold
Nemui	Unbuilt e-white Nemui by Bachoo. A-stock, mint with no wear or imperfections on the case, comes with a millmaxed pcb, durock v2 stabs, a new unused solder pcb, a brass plate, 2 fr4 plates, and the original carrying case.	$550	No
Crin	Unbuilt rose gold Crin by Bachoo. WKL with the infill lily variant. A-stock, mint with no wear or imperfections on the case, comes with a desoldered pcb, alu plate, and the original carrying case. (Does not come with stabs)	$400	No
Vengeur-TKL (Jalter Board)	Wine red Jalter by Bachoo. Was a private run only. Comes with an unused pc plate, unused alu plate, unused cf plate, unused fr4 plate, unused pcb, and a complete build on half alu w/ LF gat black ink v2s and durock v2 stabs. (does not come with keycaps or lat) Please note there are 3 nicks in the anno that it sustained during shipping to me, please look at the last two pictures in the jalter album.	$1200	No
Keychron V5	Built once for less than a day, unbuilt and fully stock (no mods done, not taken apart), comes in the original box with all accessories.	$60	No
YMDK Wings	Bought it from a friend, right space stab needs to be taken apart and cleaned, the previous owner drowned it in lube and its MUSH. Mode Linear Yellow Switches. Durock V1 Stabs. KBDFans Plate foam. Drop MT3 WoB keycaps. The ground pin on the spacebar has been jumpered, but works just fine. Has used wear and tear but no scratches.	$180	No
BM43A	Black BM43A bundle. Arrived with a mark on the bottom of the case top left of the demo logo, but you can't see it during normal usage. Comeswith a Stainless Steel Plate, oring mounted PCB, Case foam, Boba U4T switches soldered, Generic lubed clip in stabs	$100	No
Apple Extended Keyboard II	Cream Dampened Alps, Internal teensy to usb mod (soldered to ADB port, fully reversible to return to stock), scratch on top pictured, space bar is yellowed	$120	No
Apple Keyboard M0116	Salmon Alps: they're okay, some switches click some don't. Yellowed case, yellowed spacebar, keycaps are dirty and will need to be cleaned. Untested.	$80	No

Keycaps, Switches, PCBs:

Item	Description	Price	Sold
GMK Ishtar Base Kit + Deskmat	Used but has no shine, base kit only, comes with the deskmat from Kono (Deskmats a lil wavy, as were most of these, currently have it folded over in the other direction in the bag to hopefully straighten it out more). Comes with the original GMK packaging.	$320	No
GMK Red Samurai TKL Kit	DROP TKL KIT! Never mounted, opened it and realized it didn't have keycaps I needed for my layout. Comes with the original GMK packaging.	$80	No
Osume Tsukimi	Used, no shine that I can see. Comes with base Hira kit and the cable. Comes in a bag. (no original packaging)	$130	No
GMK Hennessey	Used, no shine that I can see. Base kit from drop. Comes in a bag. (no original packaging)	$100	No
PBTfans Neon	PBTFans Neon + red tripleshot alphas + red spacebars. Didn't match the keyboard color as well as I thought it would. Mounted once and basically unused. Comes in a bag. (no original packaging)	$250	No
Gateron Pro Yellow x100	Used, never soldered. x60 are pro 2.0, and x40 are pro 1.0	$22	No
Akko Rose Red Lubed x70	Used, lubed with 205g0 and springs with 105. Cleanly desoldered.	$45	No
Akko Rose Red x90	Stock. Unused.	$20	No
TTC Brown Switches x104	Stock, desoldered from a gaming keyboard, will need to be cleaned.	free, but only if you buy something else	No
Instant65 Hotswap PCB + Savage65 FR4 Plate	PCB is used but works perfectly, plate is unused.	$60	No

Is This The Demovote?

Yes! We would like to thank everyone who voted in our DEMOVOTE which collected everyone's favorite demos. Just like our yearly Top Demo, EP, Split, Etc vote we do every year, the people who participate are fewer than our Top X votes. This is to be expected as someones favorite demos is more niche than favorite metal of any given year. This has given us an opportunity to do not only do a vote result but also make it as a primer on getting into demos. I would like to thank an_altar_of_plagues for not only writing up an intro for the questions "Why Demos?" but also making a separate primer for newcomers into the world of lofi madness. Use this as a way to advance your demo knowledge one space regardless of where you are.

Demo Dives and High Fives: A Shreddit Demo Primer

But Why Demos?

Love at First "BLEGH" (an_altar_of_plagues)

I avoided demos for a long time because I thought they were just poorly-recorded versions of tracks I could find on albums. Though I want to clown on my younger self for having such a FALSE and BURNED AND DIED opinion, it's an understandable thought. The lower fidelity of much of demo outside the mainstream bands is already a turn-off for many fans of music, and demos often amplify the ostensible loss of sound for something stereotyped as ephemeral "trveness". And when I want to listen to music, I want to listen to a lot of it - why turn on demos when so many of them are just a few minutes long anyway?
The first demo that had me think "hmm, there's something to this" was Abigor's Lux Devicta Est, released in 1993. At the time, I had exhausted all of Abigor's pre-reformation LPs, and I wanted more. With tentative steps I turned on the staticky opener to this demo, and from there the love affair was set. Demos became an avenue to explore not only a band's earlier or non-album material, but to learn more about broader scenes, influences, and msuic at-large. Over the last few years, exploring the depths of demos has become one of my primary music habits - I get a ton of love out of hearing bands puts ideas down on paper for no reason but the love of the craft. And when I think I've heard it all, there's always something weird and obfuscating that makes me excited all over again about my favorite genre of music.
Demos can be an intimidating area of metal to get into - but don't fret. The easiest way to start exploring demos is to look at the discographies of bands you already enjoy. Metallica, Darkthrone, and Morbid Angel are just three bands with important, influential, and just plain good-sounding demos for your pleasure. From there, check out bands' influences on the Metal Archives and see which names pop out. Lots of your favorite bands are as nerdy about metal as we are on this subreddit, and plenty of them are open about what's inspired them to make music.
Thanks for reading, and have an excellent time!

Mining For Ore (Kaptain Carbon)

When I started Tape Wyrm many years ago, I wanted to cover black and death metal demos that few people knew about. Part of this was the discovery process, so I could be the first one to tell someone else about a cool thing on the internet, but over time I enjoyed writing about bands that no one else was writing about. I also felt that negative reviews were mute anymore. That there was so much music, one could entirely immerse themselves in it and never have to write about things they didn't enjoy. Why spend time writing about a popular record you didn't like when there were 10 better ones no one has heard of? Moving from a music critic perspective to a music miner perspective was fun, since it also seemed like there was a culture of like-minded writers evolving into the space. So I began just listening to anything that was new and had a cool cover and developed my own compass on what would potentially be interesting. Though the landscape of music consumption has changed over the past decades, places like Bandcamp have become a field for anyone to interact with the music they want. With a small amount of gumption one could find things with little effort and be amazed almost daily.
There is a belief nearing a joke about demos being better than albums, as it captures the essence of a band before the inevitable commercialization of the sound. The strange thing is this idea could be as true as it could be false. Demos in earlier decades acted as demonstrations of talent, which were used as pitches for record contracts. For famous bands, demos were then released on compilation or box sets. When tape trading became a form of music dissemination, demos were passed around not only as potential projects that would yield future albums, but also as products themselves. Some of these demos would be from bands that would go on to be famous, while others were just from bands that would make these types of releases indefinitely. That means, while demos still exist today, they do not exist the same way they did in the past. There is no reason to have a demo for a record label, as that sort of relationship does not exist in the same way it did in the 70s and 80's. You make tapes for demos after you put your music on Bandcamp, Youtube, or Soundcloud and only if you have the financial means. Demos on tape today are a mark of established progress, which are sold to fans rather than given away to record labels. While the necessity of demos might have changed, the spiritual realm of the demo still exists as it did in past decades.
When you get into demos, and seeking out more of the same, you not only approach the entire history of music but its subterranean maintenance floor. You will be listening to lesser known releases from famous bands, as well as full releases from potentially unknown bands. You could be listening to releases by bands made in haste to pitch to record labels, or from bands who chose never to venture into larger production. For the band and its listeners, this realm of the demo is marked with a raw spirit that tries to chain it to a recorded release. It is a world where things are made in haste and with the intention to capture a moment in time. Listening and seeking out demos has given me a heavy metal hobby where my musical options has an almost infinite number of participants. It reminds me of the expanse of music where it is impossible to think there is nothing good coming out at any given time. There is a torrent of music and we cant possibly have the time to drink it all.

First Circle: Essential / Most Popular Demos of All Time

1. Rippikoulu - Musta Seremonia [Finland, Death/Doom] (1993) 14

Well, here it is. One of the most famous, if not the most famous death metal demo of all time comes from a Finland -- a place of seemingly eternal misery and poetry. When people talk Finnish death, Rippikoulu is mentioned alongside Demilich, Abhorrence, Demigod, and like three other entries in the below list. When people talk about Finnish death, they talk this 31 minute release. There is little else save for the first demo and most certainly not their 2014 EP. Musta Seremonia is an iconic release in the death/doom genre and made even more canonical with the 1798 painting The Vision of the White Horse by Philip James De Loutherbourg showing Death and Famine riding after the breaking of the first two seals in the end times. If you don't believe me look at the cover and listen to this part specifically for the wrestling entrance song for Death and Famine.

2. Poison - Into the Abyss [Germany, Death / Thrash] (1987) 13

Poison, despite having the same name as another more popular band, has an interesting backstory which is perhaps the fate of many bands of the same era. Poison's original 1987 demo led to the band being featured on a Roadrunner compilation which then led to a contract stipulation that they would accept no offers from other labels in a given time period. During that time, Poison dissolved thus ending an extremely short existence. Into the Abyss (1993) is a remastered release of the original 1987 demo and seems to be also celebrated by fans as being apart of a short tragic history of a band that never was. Perhaps this band would go onto do great things but this is a time when a demo is the only living artifact of a band that could have been.

3. Necrovore - Divus De Mortuus [US, Death] (1987) 13

Necrovore exists as two demos. This one and Demo 1988. Perhaps the most established thing about this band is the logo which seems to take up most of the visual real estate on the releases. Necrovore existed for 3 years and their members went on to do projects that were as obscure but less popular than Necrovore. This was a moment in time for this band and I honestly am baffled this exists. Texas in the 1980's does not seem like a time for a furious death / black band to exist let alone make a demo that has no right to being this good.

4. Damaar - Triumph Through Spears of Sacrilege [Lebanon, Black/ Death] (2007) 12

Damaar is perhaps one of the more recent additions in this list and this act comes with a couple of interesting bullet points or bullet belt points. The first is the band being from Lebanon and with some strong opinions on organized religion. The second is a sound that feels like machine gun fired in a small closet. Triumph Through Spears of Sacrilege is a furious explosion in the tradition of Revenge, Blasphemy, and any other band that wears bullet belts for fashion. This band is for a discerning fan who enjoys being steamrolled by sound.

5. Enslaved - Yggdrasill [Norway, Black] (1992) 10

This is interesting since you can listen to the new record from Enslaved in 2023 and then go back 31 years and see where it all started. If I were to imagine Enslaved I would picture some giant tree perhaps sacred in Norse Cosmology and this demo being at the very root before branching out into various worlds. If you are at all familiar with Enslaved's work you are aware they started in black metal before experimenting with progressive black and what I suspect is hallucinogens. This is before all of that and Yggdrasill sounds like the cover of a photocopied lightning bolt which adorns the cover. You also get an early example of dungeon synth / neoclassical with the track "Resound Of Gjallarhorn" which doesn't come with the catalyst until you run Grasp of Avarice.

6. Nirvana 2002 - Disembodied Spirits [Sweden, Death] (1990) 10

There is much lore surrounding this Swedish band and their name as the 2002 was supposedly added to not confuse themselves with the American band who just released their debut on SubPop. I am just confused why this Swedish band would make the change for another band that had yet to become established. Perhaps premonition? In any case we all know this band as "not that Nirvana" but if you are at all familiar with death metal, you know Nirvana 2002 spoken in the same sentence as Entombed, Dismember, and Nihilist. This is Swedish death metal that might not be as well known as the other band with the name but within the right community they are just as legendary.

7. Metallica - No Life 'Til Leather [US, Thrash] (1982) 9

We start to dive into the obscure acts now with a demo from a little known band that went onto produce nothing of note. Metallica demo is a prime example of demo turned album as all songs in the 1982 demo would appear on their 1983 debut (minus the lyric changes for The Mechanix) . No Life 'Til Leather was an example of the band shipping their sound to interested parties before being picked up by Megaforce Records one year later. For anyone interested in Metallica lore, this is the demo Mustaine played on before entering into a career about complaining about being in the band and giving ammunition to the one person who said Metallica died after Mustaine left (probably Mustaine himself).

8. Timeghoul - Tumultuous Travelings [US, Death] (1992) 9

I am not certain, but I feel everyone's first demo is from Timeghoul. I am almost positive. Timeghoul, for the longest time, existed only known to the few people who traveled in the catacombs of death metal demos and those who personally knew the band. This changed in 2012 with the release of the first two demos as a compilation from Dark Descent. Suddenly, everyone and their grandmothers knew about this death metal band (not really). It is hard not to understand why Timeghoul made such an impact as the band made protracted epics about science fiction and fantasy combining the lyrics with a sound which ripped the fabric of reality. I laugh still to this day that Timghoul perhaps has more attention and success now as an internet band than when they were a band for those few short years.

9. Stone Dagger - Stone Dagger [US, Heavy] (2013) 9

Oh cool, this must be one of those new heavy metal bands and in no way a mixture of bands that loop in traditional metal and near raw black metal. No. Stone Dagger might be easier to understand if you don't look at the members. Sure there are some easy connections like Magic Circle and Sumerlands. Then you have members who were also in the death doom act Innumerable Forms as well as others who were the lead in the black metal act Torture Chain. Also there is Pagan Altar thrown in there. The sound of Stone Dagger is not what you would expect from its members but few care since in that confusion lies a demo which is skilled and eternally impactful.

10. Tormentor - Anno Domini [Hungary, Black] (1989) 9

Do you know how many bands have the name Tormentor? I do. 21. Tormentor for the longest time existed as this Eastern European black metal band that made demos and a live album with misrepresented covers of Destruction songs as Bathory covers. (I do find it interesting that Destruction was that big of a deal for a band to be covering their song "Total Desaster" a few years later.) If any of the bands I just mentioned are of interest to you then Tormentor should be apart of your daily diet. Raw, unflinching, and a complete fucking mess, Tormentor lives to be a problem. Anno Domini is also noted for being listed as a demo despite it being 38 minutes long. I don't know what they were intending on doing with this outside of being exciting to internet dorks 30 years later.

11. Blasphemy - Blood Upon the Altar [Canada, Black / Death] (1989) 9

"Added to the second full-length Gods of War to compensate for the album's overly short running time." Alright what do we do this album is only 20 minutes? I don't know just put our demo on there who gives a fuck? Sometimes the complete lack of caring is charming for a band like Blasphemy. For anyone not familiar with the band you can honestly start at their albums or this one it doesn't matter as the production sounds like gravel and barbell drops after a sick deadlift. You either enjoy Blasphemy or you haven't been bullied to enjoy Blasphemy more.

12. Abhorrence - Vulgar Necrolatry [Finland, Death] (1990) 8

We are back in Finland which should be a place you visit if interested in death metal. Yeah, sure Sweden has its history but the true Sweden is Finland. Please don't DM me it was a joke. Abhorrence does not exist in full length form. Demos, EPs, Splits and compilations are the realm of this band and to be honest they could not be anywhere else. Something this gross and unhinged is best experienced in 15 minute terror sessions. Vulgar Necrolatry also has the pleasure of being entirely hand drawn for the cover and what it looks like done on a bumpy bus.

13. Morbid Angel - Thy Kingdom Come [US, Death] (1987) 7

Before the now famous release of Altars of Madness (1989), Morbid Angel would have four demos. Three of these would feature Mike Browning who was creating Nocturnus as the same time. Thy Kingdom Come does not have Browning rather Wayne Hartsell who was a member from 1986 to 1988 and only played on this demo. I do not know why and where Browning was at this time but I think I would have to read books to find out. Thy Kingdom Come, outside of the granular details, is one instance I prefer the muted sounds of the demo over the followup album. Morbid Angel is not lacking in energy, in any capacity though on Thy Kingdom Come, the death metal set in a blender sound feels more palatable on this early demo.

14. Hellhammer - Satanic Rites [Switzerland, Speed / Thrash / Black] (1983) 7

If Hellhammer has given us anything, It is demo and EP covers that go great on battlejackets. Satanic Rites (1983) and Apocolyptic Raids (1984) are the core of the Hellhammer universe and the place where most of these people with jackets travel to for pilgrimage. To know this band you should listen to both releases before moving onto Celtic Frost and inevitably sewing on a patch to your battle jacket. Its fine, they are cool and so are you.

15. At the Gates - Gardens of Grief [Sweden, Melodic Death] (1991) 7

"The band was called The Dwellers at the Gates of Silent Memory (named after a Fields of a Nephilim song) for about a week before the members decided to shorten it." What the fuck, am I just learning this now? That is how they shortened it? For anyone unfamiliar with the early work of At The Gates before their breakouts Terminal Spirit Disease (1994) and Slaughter of the Soul (1995), they were rougher death metal. This is also an instance where you are going to have to temper your expectation as the foundation which would bring them fame is still present in their demo and debut The Red in the Sky Is Ours (1992). Gardens of Grief is a moment in history everyone should be aware of and I do wish they didnt shorten their name as it sounds like a post rock band.

16. Timeghoul - Panaramic Twilight [US, Death] (1994) 6

Well this is awkward. I literally just talked about this band and said everything I wanted to. For anyone curious, the cover for this demo, which you probably have seen comes from the most famous of metal album cover designers Gustave Dore. This one in particular is from the 1845 illustration from Edgar Allen Poe's Raven. The illustration is called ", Death Depicted as the Grim Reaper on Top of the Moon" which I think is suitable for a band like Timeghoul. Again, Dore continues to be the greatest artist everyone steals from to make metal album covers.

17. Nihilist - Only Shreds Remain [Sweden, Death] (1989) 6

See, I'm just joking about Sweden. If you were looking for a timeline of this band it goes Brainwarp > Nihilist> Entombed. Nihilist only really existed for two years but judging by the way you see that logo almost everywhere and referenced in many places, you can assume they left a last impression. I am unsure which came first, the respect for Entombed or the discovery of Nihilist. Regardless of where it started everyone should be required to listen to at least the cursory works of Nihilist, Entombed, Unleashed, and Morbid which all make up this crusty web of Swedish death

18. Catacomb - In the Maze of Kadath [France, Death] (1993) 6

LISTEN TO THAT EARLY DUNGEON SYNTH INTRO! Okay, so up until two days from now, Catacomb exists as just this demo. Not to sday Morbid Attraction (1991) or The Lurker at the Threshold (1992) were not appreciated but In The Maze of Kadath is the one which brought this band enough underground success to last them 30 years. I might be wrong but I think the discovery of Catacomb happened after the invention of the internet as the label which released the original demo has In The Maze of Kadath as their only release. You can also buy one of of the copies from the manager.. Who knew Lovecraftian death metal would be so appreciated by people on the internet years later?

19. Whetstone - Ancient Metal [Germany, Heavy / Speed] (1988) 5

I don't know if this slaps despite the band picture or because of it.. Outside of this demo, some of the members went onto another heavy metal act called The Immortal before disbanding after two demos. "The band called their style "Ancient Metal". Okay, well that certainly didn't stick. How about heavy/speed similar to early Blind Guardian? Sounds great.

20. Death Strike - Fuckin' Death (1985) 5

The original Fuckin' Death demo would be turned into the first four tracks on Fuckin' Death (1991) released by Nuclear Blast. Again this is an example of a demo as proof of concept for an eventual album. They didn't even change the name. Fuckin' Death (1991) would eventually go onto to be the release everyone knows and its probably no due to the fact they are lounging on a car like some stoner rock band. It is almost as if this band doesnt give a fuck about anything and is using the ferocity of punk to fuel their death metal.

21. Hades - Alone Walkyng [Norway, Black / Viking] (1993) 5

"Jørn Inge Tunsberg was convicted for Åsane church arson on Christmas Eve of 1992 along with Varg Vikernes and spent 2 years in prison." Oh its one of those bands. I am sure Hades gained some sort of cult popularity due to the actions of one member which is kinda of a shame since the music contained in this demo is top notch. Far cleaner than what one would expect from an early early 90's Norwegian black demo which continues to add to the complexity of this release.

22. Sadistic Intent - Conflict Within [US, Death] (1989) 5

What the fuck is going on with this cover? One of the funniest things about Sadistic Intent is that in 2007 most of the band reformed Possessed and existed as Possessed for a few years. Sure why not? You have seen the logo for Sadistic Intent on a jacket and it is usually worn by the craziest looking person at the metal show. This should be taken as a warning since they are looking for the pit to form and to claim dominion on the upper echelons of the crowd. It is understandable because outside the spasms of manic hyper activity, this band throws some nasty riffs which are probably covered in bacteria.

23. Demigod - Unholy Domain [Finland, Death] (1991) 5

LISTEN TO THAT DUNGEON SYNTH INTRO. Holy shit now its Demigod! This is the best day ever! Seriously if you have never listened to Demigod before go listen to Slumber of Sullen Eyes (1992) and then when you are done listen to this demo. If you did step one, move to step two. I have a personal connection with Demigod as they are some of the few bands that make me stop what I'm doing to absorb riffs at my computer.

24. Treblinka - Crawling in Vomits [Sweden, Death / Black] (1988) 5

This sounds terrible but you know, it might have been apart of the grand design. Treblinka exists as one of those legacy bands you might see reformed for a one off show or maybe not since the members dont want anything to do with each other. Treblinka eventually turned into Tiamat and all members participated on the Sumerian Cry (1991) demo before all not doing that anymore. I am not going to recommend Crawling in Vomits as your first dive into demos or maybe I will because you know it could be apart of the whole design.

25. Emperor - Wrath of the Tyrant (1992) 5

LISTEN TO THAT DUNGEON SYNTH INTRO. Well, no wonder, Mortiis is on here. I am not going to get into the labyrinth of release differences between this demo as it exists in multiple versions, fake versions and compilations. Somewhere in Norway the band Emperor recorded their demo on "on bad equipment (4 tracker) during 8-9 & 11 May '92."You will most certainly come across Emperor in your heavy metal travels and this demo is less important in terms of the music than it is for its historical importance. This is also true since the Emperor (1993) EP was released a year later and has the now iconic (Also Dore) cover of Death on a Pale Horse.

Second Circle: More Niche Demos Worthy of Discovery

26 Lucifer's Hammer - The Burning Church (1994) 4
27 Virtue - We Stand to Fight (2013) 4
28 Worship - Last Tape Before Doomsday (1999) 4
29 Armoured Angel - Communion (1990) 4
30 Tomb Mold - The Bottomless Perdition (2016) 4
31 Pagan Altar - Pagan Altar (1982) 4
32 Iron Maiden - The Soundhouse Tapes (1979) 4
33 Demolition Hammer - Necrology (1989) 4
34 Baxaxaxa - Hellfire (1992) 4
35 Hellhammer - Triumph of Death (1983) 4
36 Bog Body - Through the Burial Bog (2018) 3
37 Xysma - Swarming of the Maggots (1989) 3
38 Paradise Lost - Frozen Illusion (1989) 3
39 Possessed - Death Metal (1984) 3
40 Nihilist - Premature Autopsy (1988) 3
41 Cromlech - ...And Darkness Fell (1996) 3
42 Varathron - Genesis of Apocryphal Desire (1990) 3
43 Vader - Morbid Reich (1990) 3
44 Morbid - December Moon (1987) 3
45 Destruction - Bestial Invasion of Hell (1984) 3
46 Sabbat - Sabbatical Demon (1990) 3
47 Paysage d'Hiver - Paysage d'Hiver (1999) 3
48 Mercyful Fate - Burning the Cross (1981) 3
49 Terminal Death - Faces of Death (1985) 2
50 Mefisto - The Puzzle (1986) 2
51 Angel Witch - 1978 Demo (1978) 2
52 Messiah in the Abyss - Noumenon (2022) 2
53 Spirit Possession - 2020 Demo (2020) 2
54 Megadeth - Last Rites (1984) 2
55 Apollo Ra - Ra Pariah (1989) 2
56 Sijjin - Angel of the Eastern Gate (2019) 2
57 Exorcist - Voices From the Graves (1987) 2
58 Törr - Witchhammer (1987) 2
59 Afterbirth - Psychopathic Embryotomy (1994) 2
60 Abhorer - Rumpus of the Undead (1989) 2
61 Mefisto - Megalomania (1986) 2
62 As Sahar - Meditation Embun Pagi (1995) 2
63 Slaughter Lord - Taste of Blood (1987) 2
64 Imprecation - Ceremony of the Nine Angles (1992) 2
65 Satan - Into the Fire (1982) 2
66 Sanctus - Thy Disciples (1982) 2
67 Bekëth Nexëhmü - De Svarta Riterna (2013) 2
68 Dark Tranquillity - Trail of Life Decayed (1991) 2
69 Moonsorrow - Tämä Ikuinen Talvi (1999) 2
70 Ethereal Shroud - AbsolutionEmptiness (2013) 2
71 Paysage d'Hiver - Steineiche(1998) 2
72 Deranged - Place of Torment (1989) 2
73 Arnaut Pavle - Arnaut Pavle (2013) 2
74 Rhinocervs - RH-07 (2011) 2
75 Paysage d'Hiver - Kristall & Isa (2000) 2
76 Crematory - Wrath From the Unknown (1991) 2
77 Hell - Hell (1982) 2
78 Twisted Tower Dire - Triumphing True Metal (1997) 2
79 Slaughter - Surrender or Die (1985) 2
80 Eucharist - Demo 1 (1992) 2
81 Cruciamentum - Convocation of Crawling Chaos (2009) 2
82 Dismember - Reborn in Blasphemy (1990) 2

Third Circle: Wow You Are Still Here? You Absolute Maniac

83 Valefar - Frigus Ex Tenebris Venit (1995) 1
84 Pan.Thy.Monium - .....Dawn (1990) 1
85 Morbid Fear - Darkest Age (1990) 1
86 Detonátor - Demo - 1990 (1990) 1
87 Armoured Angel - McMXCV Demo (1995) 1
88 Manowar - Demo '81 (1981) 1
89 Venom - Demon (1980) 1
90 Reversed - Promo 2022 (2022) 1
91 Kaldeket - Vitiate (2021) 1
92 Dripping Hörror - Waiting for the Drip (2020) 1
93 Pyre of Black Roses - Demo I (2021) 1
94 Hinthial - :𐌀𐌍𐌔𐌀𐌓: (2021) 1
95 Nona Decima Morta - Demo (2020) 1
96 Skorbvstr - Hanshi (2022) 1
97 Venymysgourvleydh - Subterranean Pyre (2021) 1
98 Dawn - Apparition (1993) 1
99 Impurity - The Impurity Temple (1989) 1
100 Merciless Death - Holocaust (1992) 1
101 Nuctemeron - The Unxpected (1988) 1
102 Interment - Where Death Will Increase (1991) 1
103 Imperator - Eternal Might (1988) 1
104 Slaughter - Bloody Karnage (1984) 1
105 Ljosazabojstwa - Staražytnaje Licha (2015) 1
106 Amon - Call the Master! (1992) 1
107 Fantom - Lucifer Jelenj Meg! (1987) 1
108 Slaugther Lord - Thrash 'Til Death 86-87 (2000) 1
109 Asgard - Cachtická Pani Hrabenka Bathory (1995) 1
110 Ripping Corpse - Death Warmed Over (1987) 1
111 Sorcerer - Sorcerer (1989) 1
112 Gorement - Obsequies... (1991) 1
113 Sentenced - Rotting Ways to Misery (1991) 1
114 Funebrarum - Triumphant Ascent (2000) 1
115 Bolt Thrower - Concession of Pain (1987) 1
116 Rottrevore - The Epitome of Pantalgia (1990) 1
117 Crematory - The Exordium (1990) 1
118 Mortify - The Calm Beyond... (1993) 1
119 Death - Death by Metal (1984) 1
120 Eructation - Demo #1 (1992) 1
121 Transgressor - Twisting Brochus (1990) 1
122 Sarcasm - A Touch of the Burning Red Sunset (1994) 1
123 Invocator - Alterations (1989) 1
124 Crucifix - Barriers (1992) 1
125 Adversary - Remains of an Art Forgotten (1991) 1
126 Agonized - Gods... (1991) 1
127 Ebwa - Savagery of Bawo (1998) 1
128 F.C.D.N. Tormentor - Demonic (1986) 1
129 Terrorizer - Nightmares (1987) 1
130 Jaguar - 6 Track Demo (1980) 1
131 Demon Bitch - Demon Bitch (2012) 1
132 Vixen - The Works (2004) 1
133 Eternal Champion - The Last King of Pictdom (2013) 1
134 Obscure Evil - Midnight Forces (2016) 1
135 Devil - Magister Mundi Xum (2010) 1
136 Ageless Wisdom - Demo '90 (1990) 1
137 Torture Chain - Mountains of Hate (2009) 1
138 Blitzkrieg - Demo Tape (1980) 1
139 Obsequiae - Obsequiae (2009) 1
140 Ras Algethi - Oblita Divinitas (1993) 1
141 Cosmic Church - Syysauringon Vihkimys (2012) 1
142 Fall of the Leafe - Storm of the Autumnfall (1996) 1
143 Mourning Beloveth - Autumnal Fires (1998) 1
144 Departure Chandelier - The Black Crest of Death, the Gold Wreath of War (2011) 1
145 Thergothon - Fhtagn-Nagh Yog-Sothoth (1991) 1
146 Tomb Mold - Cryptic Transmissions (2017) 1
147 Agalloch - From Which of This Oak (1997) 1
148 Behemoth - ...From the Pagan Vastlands (1994) 1
149 Blaspherian - Summoning of Infernal Hordes (2006) 1
150 Excarnated Entity - Stillborn in Ash (2019) 1
151 Mephitic Corpse - Immense Thickening Vomit (2019) 1
152 Total Isolation - Winfield (2019) 1
153 Rotted - Dying to Rot (2019) 1
154 Grotesque Infection - Consumption of Human Feces (1992) 1
155 Mortiferum - Altar of Decay (2017) 1
156 Cryptopsy - Ungentle Exhumation (1993) 1
157 Ares Kingdom - Ares Kingdom (1989) 1
158 Paysage D’hiver - Kerker (1999) 1
159 Xasthur - A Gate Through Bloodstained Mirrors (2001) 1
160 Darkthrone - Land of Frost (1988) 1
161 Spiral Staircase - S/T (2017) 1
162 Drowning the Light - Dark Winter Depression (2003) 1
163 Beherit - Demonomancy (1990) 1
164 Viridescent Funeral - Verdant Kingdoms (2022) 1
165 Svartidauði - Those Who Crawl and Slither Shall Again Inherit the Earth (2010) 1
166 Veitsi - Dignity & Honor (2022) 1
167 Otyg - Bergtagen (1995) 1
168 Isengard - Vandreren (1993/2022) 1
169 Tomhet - Purpureargotamiceps (2007) 1
170 Panphage - Nordlandets Dödsande (2011) 1
171 Arckanum - Trulen (1994) 1
172 Vlad Tepes - Dans Notre Chute... (1995) 1
173 Voivod - To the Death!... (1984) 1
174 Demilich - The Four Instructive Tales... Of Decomposition (1991) 1
175 Axeman - Arrive (2010) 1
176 Moonblood - Dusk Woerot (2002) 1
177 Baphomet - Children of Doom (1987) 1
178 Leviathan - Black Metal, White Devil (2002) 1
179 Nakkeknaekker - Krig (Demo) (2021) 1
180 The Suns Journey Through the Night - Demo II (2021) 1
181 Temple Ash - I (2018) 1
182 Paysage d'Hiver - Das Tor (2013) 1
183 Clairvoyance - Demo (2020) 1
184 Tomb Mold - The Moulting (2016) 1
185 Tomb Mold - Aperture of Body (2022) 1
186 Pendraig - Demo Tracks (2019-2020) (2021) 1
187 Ekranoplan - Demo (2018) 1
188 Sedimentim - Demo (2019) 1
189 Xatatax - Demo 2014 (2014) 1
190 Ethereal Shroid - Lanterns (2020) 1
191 War Cry - Trilogy of Terror (1983) 1
192 Hirax - Demo 1984 (1984) 1
193 Zemial - Necrolatry (1997) 1
194 Sindrome - Into the Halls of Extermination (1987) 1
195 Satan - The First Demo (1981) 1
196 Witchslayer - '83 Demo (1983) 1
197 Frigid Bich - Demo (1984) 1
198 Fatal Agent - Demo-Lition(2017) 1
199 Virtue - Fools Gold(1987) 1
200 Cryptic - Cryptic '89(1989) 1
201 Aspiration - Visions of Reality(1993) 1
202 …and Oceans - Mare Liberum(1998) 1
203 Glacier - Ready for Battle(1984) 1
204 Coroner - Death Cult(1986) 1
205 Belial - Gods of the Pit(1991) 1
206 Mutilated - Psychodeath Lunatics(1988) 1
207 Nomicon - De Rerum Natura(1992) 1
208 Sacro - Yo Voy a Pelear (1986) 1
209 Communion - Black Metal Dagger Demo Rehearsal (2015) 1
210 Chastain - Demo '84 (1984) 1
211 Storm Queen - Demo 1 - The BBC Studio Sessions (1980) 1
212 Deep Machine - Demo '80 (1980) 1
213 White Medal - Yorkshire Steel (2012) 1
214 Satan's Blade - Curse of the Blade (2015) 1
215 Cirith Ungol - Cirith Ungol (1979) 1
216 Jonah Quizz - Demo 1980 (1980) 1
217 Slayer - Demo (1982) 1
218 Predatory Light - MMXIV (2014) 1
219 Syöpä - Beneath Lucifer's Eye (2005) 1
220 Thresher - Totally Possessed (1989) 1
221 Trouble - 1983 Demo (1983) 1
222 Trouble - 1982 Demo (1982) 1
223 Antestor - Kongsblod (1987) 1
224 Apostle - Apostle (1984) 1
225 Cross - Metal From Above (1987) 1
226 Septicflesh - Forgotten Path (1991) 1
227 Fatal - Soul Burns (1989) 1
228 Amorphis - Disment of Soul (1991) 1
229 Kostnateni - Konec Je Vsude (2018) 1
230 Borrowed Time - Demo 2010 (2010) 1
231 Goatlord - Sodomize the Goat (1988) 1
232 Primitive Warfare - Primitive Warfare (2019) 1
233 Carcass - Flesh Ripping Sonic Torment (1987) 1
234 Mütiilation - Black Imperial Blood (Travel) (1994) 1
235 Reclusiam - Reclusiam (2004) 1
236 Sentenced - Journey to Pohjola (1992) 1
237 Cathedral - In Memorium (1990) 1
238 Evoken - Shades of Night Descending (1994) 1
239 Repulsion - Slaughter of the Innocent (1986) 1
240 Avernus - Sadness (1994) 1
241 Katatonia - Jhva Elohim Meth (1992) 1
242 Vektor - Hunger for Violence (2007) 1
243 Mournful Congregation - An Epic Dream of Desire (1995) 1
244 Entombed - But Life Goes on (1989) 1
245 Darkthrone - Cromlech (1989) 1
246 Reputdeath - Dissecting Goryfication (2022) 1
247 Encumber - Silent Witness of Past (1998) 1
248 Gates of Ishtar - Seasons of Frost (1995) 1
249 Cyanotic - The Chasm Within (1992) 1
250 Ablaze My Sorrow - Ablaze My Sorrow (1995) 1
251 Centinex - Under the Blackened Sky (1993) 1
252 Dismember - Last Blasphemies (1989) 1
253 Mork Gryning - Demo '94 (1994) 1
254 Glacier - Demo Tape (1988) 1
255 My Dying Bride - Towards the Sinister (1991) 1
256 Nuclear Winter - Abomination Virginborn (2003) 1
257 Amon - Sacrificial (1989) 1
258 Cynic - Demo (1991) 1
259 Arcane Necrosis - Arcane Necrosis (2006) 1
260 Grand Belial's Key - Goat of a Thousand Young (1992) 1
261 Gontyna Kry - Welowie (1997) 1
262 Graveland - The Celtic Winter (1994) 1
263 Vlad Tepes - War Funeral March (1994) 1
264 Marduk - Fuck Me Jesus (1991) 1
265 Black Crucifixioin - The Fallen One of Flames (1995) 1
266 Moonblood - The Winter Falls Over the Land (1995) 1
267 Poison - Bestial Death (1985) 1
268 Powervice - Behold the Hand of Glory (2005) 1
269 Mütiilation - Destroy Your Life for Satan (2008) 1
270 Nokturnal Mortum - Lunar Poetry (1996) 1
271 Funebre - Demo '90 (1990) 1
272 Rotting Christ - Satanas Tedeum (1989) 1
273 Vader - Necrolust (1989) 1
274 Desaster - Lost in the Ages (1994) 1 275 Death - Mutilation (1986) 1
276 Thou Art Lord - The Cult of the Horned One (1993) 1
277 Primordial - Dark Romanticism... Sorrow's Bitter Harvest... (1993) 1
278 Endlichkeit - Endlichkeit IX (2015) 1
279 Paysage d'Hiver - Schattengang (1998) 1
280 Endlichkeit - Endlichkeit VI-VIII (2014) 1
281 Untitled - Untitled 1
282 Helloween - Death Metal Demo (1984) 1
283 Dream Theater - The ATCO Demos (2002) 1
284 Stormbringer - Stealer of Souls (1993) 1
285 Elfspell - The River Giant Rises (2016) 1
286 Firestorm - Siege by Fire (1999) 1
287 Tabernacle - Terror in Thrace (2021) 1
288 Sauron - Demo (1984) 1
289 The Mob - Demo (1982) 1
290 Moonshade - Lost in a Nightmare (1998) 1
291 Thundercross - Land of Immortals (1994) 1
292 Solar Temple - Rays of Brilliance (2017) 1
293 Nimbifer - Demo I (2019) 1
294 Intestine Baalism - The Energumenus (1995) 1
295 Vothana - Vua Quang Trung - Demo IV - (2006) 1
296 420 - Reality (1998) 1
297 Vlad Tepes - Celtic Poetry (1994) 1
298 Blood Spill - Demo (1988) 1
299 Aeon - Clean Hand of the Eternal Gods (1995) 1
300 Vaktal - Vitriolic Revolt (2021) 1
301 Benighted - World of Nothingness (2001) 1
302 Winter Bestowed - Within My Labyrinthine Heart (2001) 1
303 Deaf Auditorium - Season of Evil (2002) 1

TW: mentions of IG and IRL assault, transphobia
This happened some 10 years ago. I was friends with this group for a few years. We'd larp, play collectible card games, hike, and party together. All of them played a lot of DnD in their teens, but by the time I came around, they were mostly interested in playing joke one-shots. But then someone had the idea to do a real proper serious campaign for once and I was thrilled.
At that time, I had no idea about non-binary genders (much less known that's where I stand), but I was obsessed with the idea of Babylonian gala, Scythian enaree, and the various gender-transcending beliefs among Siberian shamans. I made my character this perfectly androgynous cleric to a definitely-not-Ishtar goddess and was incredibly excited about it.
Trouble started brewing when I rolled the top possible charisma for my setup. One of the players - a guy I've known for 7 years at that point, used to date him for 4 of them, mind you - got extremely flustered by that. He was getting pretty loud about having to know what gender I am if I am that attractive, and he just wouldn't shut up about it. The DM stayed out of it, but others in the group eventually told him to leave it. He did, for a little while.
We started with the obligatory tavern meeting. This same player thought the best introduction was trying to grope my character to find out the "secret". I fought him off and tried to leave. Then shit caught on fire, probably as an attempt to keep us together. It all devolved into this mad scramble out of town and we ended up being hunted by the guard. So my character was stuck with this band of maniacs with nowhere to return to. And this guy just wouldn't stop trying to take off my robes or cop a feel the entire session. Eventually, he succeeded while in a fight when I was trying to heal him. The DM allowed him to roll for it and I had to decide on the spot what he found out.
After the session, I mentioned that it made me kind of uncomfortable, but I was told I should have been able to put him in his place. That you solve in character conflict in character and that it was on me to deal with it if I was bothered. Nevermind I tried and it didn't work. I ended up agreeing and we all had a laugh about me being a bit of a doormat. I felt icky, but couldn't understand why. Without intending to, I found myself busy or ill in time for subsequent sessions until they stopped asking.
This is the DnD part but has a bit of a follow-up with the same person trying to pull off a similar thing IRL. I stayed friends with the guys for a few more years, though I was slowly falling away. This particular thing happened at a larp afterparty. We were all drunk (I was just sitting there laughing at random intervals, happy as a clam, vaguely aware of what was going on), and then an old friend dropped by to say hi. It's been years, and we barely recognized her because she transitioned. It was nice to catch up, but then this person started asking all these intimate questions and got increasingly irritated that she would just laugh it off and not answer. Others were just trying to talk over him and engage her, which made him even more insistent and loud. Welp, he tried feeling up her skirt, and when she tried to push him away, he got pretty forceful, got her on the ground and shit. The rest of the guys pulled him away pretty quickly. He was indignant that "they're just horsing around and it's natural to be curious". Unfortunately, I haven't seen her around after that. I faded out from this group completely afterward. In a million years, I wouldn't have expected something like that, but turns out I'm just a terrible judge of character. In words, he was always pretty supportive of all branches of LGBTQ, I've dated him for years and he always seemed so reasonable.

Style: Organic House, Deep House, Dwontempo, Melodic House & Techno Year of publication: 2018 - 2022 Audio codec: FLAC Rip type: tracks Audio bitrate: lossless 16bit 44.1kHz Duration: 2days:01:46:44 Source: WEB / Deezer HiFi / Tidal
We are a label and playground for hand-picked and visionary sounds, offering a space to lift our spirits and free our minds. Free from belief systems or limitation, we want to amplify our gifts and creative energy to connect in love and diversity.
• [MND001] VA - Parousia [2018] (01:24:46) • [MND002] Jose Solano - Sol De Alma [2018] (00:31:12) • [MND003] Victor Norman - Abundance feat. Nasiri [2019] (00:29:37) • [MND003B] Victor Norman - Abundance feat. Nasiri [2019] (00:06:41) • [MND004] Rabih Rizk - Samhain [2019] (00:43:50) • [MND005] San Miguel - Rose Golden Bubbles [2019] (00:30:54) • [MND006] VA - Aurea [2019] (01:29:00) • [MND007] VA - Parousia 2 [2019] (03:24:50) • [MND008] ZebraCak3 - A Shau Valley [2019] (00:16:03) • [MND009] Sangeet - Heliostasio [2019] (00:24:07) • [MND010] Geplantes Nichtstun - Lagom [2019] (00:06:44) • [MND011] Andre P, Droomie - Omar [2019] (00:40:24) • [MND011B] Andre P, Droomie - Omar [2020] (00:07:23) • [MND012] M.ONDE - ONE: A Journey to Lyrical Realms [2020] (01:32:28) • [MND013] VA - Aurea 2 [2020] (01:23:14) • [MND014] MI.LA - Ivolga [2020] (00:34:56) • [MND015] Soneiro Collective - Ra Ma Da Sa [2020] (00:37:50) • [MND017] Tim Kari - Gate of Ishtar [2020] (01:01:57) • [MND018] Ka:lu - Peace on Earth [2020] (01:11:08) • [MND019] Mujia & Tajo, Charlie M. - Candela [2020] (00:37:31) • [MND020] VA - Aurea 3 [2020] (01:11:41) • [MND021] Zuma Dionys - Voodoo Child [2020] (00:20:10) • [MND022] VA - Parousia 3 [2020] (02:01:39) • [MND023] Mika El - Caravan [2020] (00:34:21) • [MND024] Max TenRoM - Nomade [2021] (00:11:59) • [MNDGMS1] VA - Tranquillus [2021] (02:28:41) • [MND026] Eternal Moment - Moong [2021] (00:22:08) • [MND027] VA - Aurea 4 [2021] (01:10:16) • [MND028] Sangeet - Reckless [2021] (00:35:55) • [MND029] Juliano Gomez, SEVN (CA) - Wildlands [2021] (00:22:19) • [MND030] Eternal Moment - Monada [2021] (00:22:26) • [MND031] Jarl Flamar - Langskip on the Euphrates [2021] (00:32:44) • [MND032] Velvele - Patika [2021] (00:21:50) • [MNDGMS2] VA - Sonus Terrarum [2021] (01:36:49) • [MND034] Sangeet - Radiant Giving [2021] (00:21:26) • [MND035] VA - Aurea 5 [2021] (01:18:27) • [MND036] Gili Eidelson - Junam [2021] (00:22:44) • [MND037] Max TenRoM - Kamane Remixe [2021] (00:43:16) • [MND038] Xila - Dusty Bells [2021] (00:10:00) • [MNDGMS3] VA - Mentis Excessus [2021] (02:07:42) • [MND039] VA - Parousia 4 [2021] (01:36:27) • [MND016] Sangeet - Heliostasio Remix Edition [2020] • (00:30:03) • • [MND040] Mayanaáy - Orka en Amazonia [2022] • (00:13:19) • • [MND042] VA - Habeas Corpus [2022] • (01:50:33) • • [MND043] T-Puse - Crippy Trippy [2022] • (00:42:45) • • [MND044] StevN - Temptation [2022] • (00:33:19) • • [MND045] VA - Deinceps [2022] • (01:02:52) • • [MND046] Kaminski & Meissner - Flugrost [2022] • (00:41:30) • • [MND047] Useh - Fernweh [2022] • (00:31:37) • • [MND048] Juliano Gomez - Pandorum [2022] • (00:39:51) • • [MND050] Amir Telem - Rama Rama Remixes [2022] • (00:21:03) • • [MND051] Sebastian Gabriel - Sonne [2022] • (00:30:55) • • [MND052] VA - Aurea 6 [2022] • (01:29:05) • • [MNDGMS4] VA - Sapere Aude [2022] • (02:43:15) • • [MND054] K2W0 - Remembering [2022] • (00:57:35) • • [MND055] Deisen - Hereinspaziert Remixes [2022] • (00:28:09) • • [MND056] Tadej Jaki - Libêrtas [2022] • (00:23:18) •
​
https://specialfordjs.org/house/68653-label-monada-57-releases-2018-2022-flac.html

Wow, Crow. You sure are stepping up and showing a lot of leadership these last few weeks. Really putting yourself at the forefront of this movement. Even making little political speeches.
Sure, go on your little revenge quest where you learn a lesson about the importance of teamwork, maturity, and accepting responsibility for your actions.
Hey, speaking of taking responsibility for your actions: remember a few weeks ago when you talked about Uldren as if he was a part of your self, how you sometimes looked back fondly on that life, even saying it was wrong to separate him from you? Just wondering. No real reason. Does he have any outstanding dares—I mean debts? Did he leave any as of yet unfilled vacancies? Again, just wondering.
Anyway, after your rampage, go to the Tower. There's a special job for you. You'll even get a cool cape with it. It goes really well with your whole... plumage aesthetic.

Become Vanguard hunter. Do it. It's time. Do it. Do it now. C'mon already, do it. DO. IT. I dare you.

^{this is all to say—if Crow was ever going to become the Hunter Vanguard, it's the end/aftermath of this season or never.}

This weekly thread is for asking questions about the world of Destiny. Any lore-based question is valid. Rather than making short Question posts, we recommend users check here first.
All responses must be friendly, respectful, and nonjudgmental. Top replies should provide a source for their answer or they may be removed.
The goal of this thread is to provide a space where users can ask any question and expect well-sourced/researched answers.

Remember to tag spoilers!

Resources:

• Ishtar Collective (the complete lore)
  
• Dredgen Yor, Shin Malphur, and the Drifter
  
• The History of the Cabal
  

Hey all (please remove this if it isn't allowed) but I'm doing a textual analysis essay for my composition class. How on earth would I cite the in-game texts? I suppose I could use the Ishtar Collective, but even then, I wouldn't know how to format it. Please advise.

Pre-Campaign
Ikora get's a message from Eris that details that she, Drifter, Elsie and several allied forces have found Scorn, House Salvation and Vex on Venus raiding Ishtar Collective structures for intel but they've suddenly retreated. Fearing that they've found what they wanted, she tells Ikora to prepare as we see Ikora is aboard the HELM with pretty much every other named character but those in the new season or unable to move like Failsafe (lol bet you forget she existed) and Petra who is still fighting the good fight on TDC. Ikora warns Zavala who then gazes at the Traveler. It surges with energy and zips away into the distance. Confused they track where it went and finally get a reading of it in orbit above Neptune. With haste Zavala orders the allied forces to follow it but it stopped by Mara when the HELMs sensors pick up a massive Cabal fleet approaching Earth. Zavala makes the hard choice and orders the allied forces to defend the City telling everyone that he's put his faith in the Traveler and believes it will defend itself even without us, big space battle begins as we cut to mission one.
Mission 1:
Cait, Osiris, Saint-14 along with several honor guards and our Guardian are aboard the Typhon Imperator and we watch as Calus emerges as a new Disciple. Calus throws endless praise to us and straight up showers us with glimmer as he laughs, believing we came aboard his ship to join him as he quickly finds out that isn't the case. Cait explains that this is her last-ditch effort to turn Calus away from The Witness and to join us against the Darkness. Calus and Cait argue for a moment until he asks us if we agree with her and with a nod we see Calus take a step back. He complains about how much he's given us both just for us to constantly stab him in the back and lashes out starting combat when Cait draws on her father firing first but her attack is blocked by a Tormentor who evacuates Calus.
We battle aboard Calus' ship seeking to disable it, as we hear over the inner comm that he proclaims that their forces on Venus have found the Veil and for his crew to prepare for lightspeed. We eventually disable the ship and send it flying out of lightspeed above Neptune. As it's going down, we fire from escape pods to see The Traveler above the world, standing alone against the Black Fleet. It gives all that it has in the fight but is disabled by The Witness, we lose our light once more as we crash on Neomuna.
Mission 2:
Stranded from The Travelers shard and now stuck on a foreign planet we hijack a nearby Cabal Interceptor and try to regroup with our forces. Driving across the beaches of the planet we see various escape pods landing all across the world, spotting gunfire and move to aid our allies only to meet up with Nimbus and Rohan fighting off the disorganized Cabal. We explain to them why we're there and they tell us they've already found Osiris and Cait and take us to Neomuna. As we ride to the city, we see long twisting vines of Strand leads to it's core and they explain that's The Veil's power. Our Ghost of course feels akin to the Veil and asks us to be taken to it and surely enough, like the Travelers shard, we can tap into it's power, but instead of getting our powers back we suddenly surge with Strand not our old might. Cabal forces suddenly attack us in our confusion with Strand, apparently having tracked us, they attack the City so we rush to defend it's people with our new powers, allowing them to get into the CloudArk safely. Soon we setup transmission and we hear about the chaos above Earth and that Guardians are once again without light with only those with Stasis having powers and being able to revive themselves. (while gameplay we can keep the light, in terms of canon, no Guardians or even the Lucent Hive no longer have light.)
Mission 3
We watch a feed of the Witness and a nearly destroyed Black Fleet in orbit as he seems to be the last man standing against The Traveler's attack. Whatever the Witness is doing, he's suppressing the Light granting his Cabal forces a massive advantage against our people back at the City. With most of the Black Fleet destroyed or being used to suppress the Traveler we make a plan to assault The Witness as Cait calls for support from any of her remaining ships to aid us. As we do so Calus arrives with his army and lays siege to the city. The people of Neomuna take over turrets around the City aiding us whenever they can and we both sides stall, with us unable to get to The Traveler but Calus' forces unable to punch through the city. Osiris takes this time to learn as much as he can about Strand, Neomuna and The Veil but he constantly is blocked by the Cloud Striders who roadblock Osiris at every turn about the importance of the Veil. Frustrated with the people of Neomuna not only hiding away for 2,000 years but refusing to elaborate about The Veil or Strand and Osiris storms off with Saint 14 going to keep him safe.
Mission 4:
We spot a burning comet falling down to the City and discover the Cabal tired of the siege have just yeeted a meteor at Neomuna. As it's about to crash down it suddenly pauses in it's place, as the Witness feed up with Calus' failures and his dumbass plan to yeet a fucking asteroid at the city and possibly destroying the Veil is reigned in super hard and basically forced to take to the frontlines himself by the Witness as his forces are further backed by Scorn to help deal with the siege. The Cloud Striders pull out their ultimate weapon, they agitate a nearby Vex network in the face of such a threat and unleash a Vex army on the Cabal. The Vex and Cabal battle out in the streets as we hunt down Calus and his most elite forces as they push hard to the Veil. As we arrive, Rohan and Nimbus are fighting him but both eventually get swatted away. As we march up Calus summons Tormentors on us and rushes to the Veil. We defeat his allies and follow him and as he gazes up to The Veil. At a loss for words Calus doesn't see a way out of the situation where one of us doesn't die. Not wanting to fight us, The Witness pressures Calus with an overwhelming darkness that scares him into an unwanted attack on us. Above, an agitated Witness spots Cait's fleet arrives in orbit forcing him to break away from the Traveler to defend himself, granting light back to our forces and us while also turning the tide back on Earth. We fight Calus but with his Darkness upgrades he's too powerful for us until a light restored Saint-14 emerges and fights the emperor with us defeating Calus and bringing him to a knee. Calus now mortally wounded laments his situation but in his last effort he sacrifices himself with a gust of green magic as the room becomes darker then night as the howling of a million souls screams in our ears as we see three green eyes energy from the shadows and they slowly creep into a single infernal being. The shadows form a fist that slams the ground knocking us and Saint-14 away from the Veil as hive magics swirl then twist into a portal and from it emerges Xivu Arath. She casts unknown spells linking to The Witness, who was DBZ fighting the Cabal fleet in orbit and he watches as a beam of Veil energy merges into the Traveler. Wasting no time The Witness abandons the fight and rushes to The Traveler using the black fleet itself to shield him from the Cabal's barrage. The Traveler once against resists him but with all his might The Witness rips open a portal and rushes in as his fleet is in ruins behind him. Waking up to see Xivu leeching power from the Veil and summoning more Hive on Nepture Saint-14 activates his sentinel shield and tackles her back into the portal. Lost in some twisted hive realm, Saint-14 then looks to XIvu Arath and tells her "Neptune isn't yours to conquer" (Jk) as he's lost in the hive portal Saint appears on the other end with Xivu and kills the Wizard controlling the portal shutting it for good. Xivu curses at Saint as she and her army swarm the Titan who stands his ground one last time against his foes.
Mission 5:
We tell Osiris about the events and of Saint fending off Xivu, knowing for his lovers fate, Osiris turns his pain into finally figuring out Strand. The Cabal Fleet comes down to Neptune and help us gain control over the City pushing back The Vex and The Shadow legion in what becomes a 3 way war. We engage in the war and discover Nezarec's influence plaguing the people as he seems to of taken command of The Shadow Legion. Osiris learns more of Strand and wonders what the Witness did to the Traveler because we still have the Light but the Traveler seems to be even more inert then it was before. We sense that our light is no longer coming from The Traveler but from one of the ships of the Black Fleet. So we make a plan to board the vessel to discover what is happening.
Mission 6:
With support from the allied Cabal we board the ruined Black Fleet and fight off hordes of Nightmares and we soon discover Nezarec is being revived somewhere on the vessel and he's feeding on whatever is granting us light to bring himself back to life. We and the Cabal push to Nezarec but are unable to stop him from feeding on the light so Osiris tells us to pull back and give him time to discover a way to bring down Nezarec for good.
Mission 7:
Osiris with help from the Psions of our allied Cabal, the people of Neomuna and his faint memories from Savathun devises a crazy plan to find a way to discover how to defeat Nezarec. We hijack a Vex network, fighting our way through their infinite halls with him and Osiris has us travel back in time to the collapse. We see cities burning, ships fleeing in all directions and a battle raging just outside the walls of the cosmodrome. We aid as many people as we can in this time broken loop until we finally land at the point where Savathun backstabs Nezarec. Returning with the proper knowledge to defeat him, we prepare to take to fight to Nezarec.
Final Mission:
Various nightmares form across Neomuna, attacking the city as Nezarec taunts us from aboard the ship. A single massive nightmare forms above Neomuna, as it reveals itself, many Vex, to the confusion of others within their ranks bow to the image. The Cabal, Scorn and what little Hive from the portal cheer at the sight of the manifestation as The Black Heart lingers above Neomuna. Vex, Hive, Cabal and Scorn assault us at every point in the City as the Nightmare of the Black Heart seems unlike any before, as it's power latches onto The Veil and the Traveler above. Surrounded by all of our greatest foes, Nimbus nearly falls in combat, only being saved by Rohan giving his life, Osiris does what he can using Vex tech and Strand but is forced to retreat before being overwhelmed. Our Cabal allies are being crushed by the empowered foes and Cait herself is shotdown, going MIA during the battle. Our Guardian stands alone before the horde as another Hive portal opens in the sky above us. Hive Tomb ships teleport in all around us as we prepare for Xivu Arath to fall from the sky as the roars of hive are heard from the other side, but only a sentinel shield flies from the portal as it ricochets around killing all it touches. Our Ghost in shock calls out to Saint-14 but nothing responds as the Tomb ships fire on the gathering hordes of our foes as The Lucent Hive fall from the portal. Coming to defend the Traveler they fight off the hordes of our enemies as we see the Black Heart being taken down by a strike force of 6 Lucent Hive (yes) depowering our foes and causing the Vex to once against turn against the Cabal and Scorn. Immaru arrives and scolds us for not being able to protect the Traveler like Savathun said and looks up to the ruined Black Fleet in orbit, asking where the Witness has gone. No one can answer him so he and his forces push ahead as our Guardian lies on the ground needing rest. The last thing we see before we pass out is The Nightmare of the Black Heart being destroyed and Osiris rushing to help us.
Post Campaign-
Osiris informs us that The Lucent Hive has discovered that Nezarec is feeding off a tree of Silver Wings aboard the Black Fleet, as it seems the Traveler grew one in it's last struggle against the Witness allowing us to retain our light. He tells us to prepare a strike force to finally kill Nezarec and that Earth is still being attacked by The Shadow Legion. An uneasy truce is made with The Lucent Hive on the spot between Osiris and Immaru as Asher Mir sends us a message from the vex network Adam Fenix style screaming back at us "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!?" as his voice fades he we can hear him talk about a magically hero fighting in the collapse that matches our description.
That's all I got k bye.

It's no secret that balance between Light and Dark is key to the mechanics of Root of Nightmares. Looking at footage of the final encounter, I can't help but notice how the battleground is pitched between the Traveler, with the triangular portal carved into it, and the Pyramid with a Tree of Silver Wings whose branches seem to be forming a globe.
To my knowledge it's been a while since it came up, but items like the Symmetrist's Suit and the lore entry Truth and Hope pushed at this idea that Light and Dark need to exist in some sort of balance or symmetry with each other. From what I have seen, the raid lore is about Nezarec and his influence, without really touching on what we saw in Lightfall's pre-rendered cutscenes. We don't have a lot of solid info to go on. But should we understand the Traveler's defensive display as less of a desperate last-ditch effort and something more intentional? Planting a seed for the Guardians to tend to, or enacting some paracausally necessary balance/symmetry between itself and the Pyramids?

tl;dr - What if Savathun secretly guided the Neomuni as a way to ensure the Veil stayed hidden? Otherwise, how exactly did she hide it there, and how did the Neomuni know what to do with it?
As we know, Neomuna depends on the Veil to support the CloudArk (because of reasons--no time to explain^TM). We also know that Savathun hid the Veil on Neptune. After reading Conditional Finality and learning that Savathun took the Veil right out of Nezarec's ship, I starting thinking: how exactly did she hide it?
It's not very Savathun to just chuck the thing down a gravity well and call it a day. While the Witness is not ominscient and the gas giant's atmosphere is apparently very good cover, that seems weak for the Scheme-Mother.
What might she do instead? Covertly guide people there and give them very strong motivation to hide it themselves ("this can keep you alive but if anyone finds you, they'll exterminate you"). More elegant, more cunning, more long-term.
In fact, she's done similar things

• the Fundament Shell talks about how "the Devil" guided Sean Rigby and his lineage to the Last City (a point that still confuses me--why did she do that? What did she gain?).
  
• Or that time she cultivated a death cult by feeding them visions of oblivion so that they would commit planetary suicide upon Rhulk's arrival, solely to spite Rhulk (fucking hilarious and honestly my single favorite piece of lore in the game).
  

So, are there any clues that she guided Soteria/the Exodus ship/the early settlers to Neptune and influenced their relationship with the Veil? Or is there any proof that she didn't?
Alternative theories:

• The Neomuni are just smart. They came from the Golden Age, had help from Soteria, were familiar with paracausal beings, and have had centuries to figure things out. Also they found the Veil underground or something?
  
• The Veil is alive and, similar to the Traveler, was able to guide the Neomuni through unknown means. Also it was just floating around or something? Or maybe it can conceil itself.
  

I've been trying to find this entry for ages but can't seem to find it, I could swear I've seen it before though. It was this entry where Ikora was telling Cayde (and maybe Zavala?) about a Guardian who kept dying a ton to the point where she was clinically insane and could barely function. I tried to check about any Thanatonaut connection but got nothing on Ishtar Collective. Am I insane or does this lore card exist?

From Clovis Bray's Logbook — Missing Pages.
The wolf-Traveler connection was heavily discussed in this sub a few years ago.

I just broke this down in a string of tweets and thought this also warranted a Reddit Post also.
In late 2016/early 2017 news was circulating that Ward of Dawn wasn't being brought forward from Destiny 1 into Destiny 2.
While I am having trouble finding the exact quote in the archives of the internet, developers at Bungie admitted that the bubble was such a potent ability that it had become mandatory for raid groups to have two Titans to provide their teams with the Blessings and Weapons of Light buffs, and Bungie as a result had to design encounters around teams having these things. They instead wanted to be able to design encounters where any combination of 6 guardians bringing any loadout to the table would be able to succeed if they executed properly.
Due to community outcry, the Bubble was folded into the new Sentinel Super as a long-press to activate two months before D2 Launched. Though the Bubble was brought forward, it only provided Armor of Light, a powerful shield that only protected guardians standing INSIDE the bubble, and the former Blessings and Weapons buffs did not get brought forward.
As a result, the returning Bubble was nowhere to be found in the early days of D2's raids, with the Titan meta being to simply provide Rally Barricades during DPS for instant reloads on weapons, something they could do on any subclass.
Come 2018, Bungie released the Forsaken DLC, with new supers and a new focus on endgame content in Destiny 2. This began the era of the Well of Radiance and its dominance as an end-game raid super.
As a summary of what Well can do, and I'm sure someone will correct me because the numbers are probably not accurate:

• Heal yourself and allies faster than any incoming damage source in the game.
  
• Provide ~50% DR in PvE and ~20% DR in PvP.
  
• Immunity to Stasis Effects.
  
• Boost outgoing damage by ~25% in PvE and ~10% in PvP.
  

It's worth restating that I mentioned in D1 it was mandatory for raid groups to have TWO Titans running Ward of Dawn, because you could only provide one buff at a time: either Blessings of Light, or Weapons of Light. You needed two Titans to do both. Additionally, you couldn't shoot out of the Bubble. There were no Healing Rifts either, so in order to do proper DPS you had to cycle back and forth in and out of the Bubbles to refresh your shields as bosses attacked you, and time your shots with your weapons.
So not only did Well of Radiance launch in a state where it alone did what used to require two Titans, it did it even better because all you had to do is stand in it and shoot, no movement required. Bungie even went so far as to poke fun at the situation in the lore.
This was the earliest case of extreme power creep in Destiny 2. The philosophy of designing raid encounters in ways that anyone could bring any loadout to succeed went out the window almost overnight, and Bungie started to again design encounters around teams having access to this super.
If you don't believe me on that point, perhaps you weren't around for the Season of the Drifter, and the Reckoning Activity. Paul Tassi himself reported from GuardianCon in the earliest days of Reckonings existence that you battle endless Thrall and stomp-happy bosses, all the while being sniped from all sides and told to stay in a tiny circle. This section relies way too heavily on just a scarce handful of tactics like tether and well.
Another quote I'm unable to source, but remember from that era, was something to the effect of "the only way the enemies can kill you is to knock you off a ledge". In the era of Forsaken, when encounters were designed around having a Well, the only way for you to die was for you the guardian to be cheesed off the map by a stomp effect.
That was 2017, not long after Reckoning and the Bridge of Infinite Supers would we see super-regenerating exotics like Phoenix Protocol, Skull of Ahamkara, Orpheus Rigs, and Doom Fang Pauldrons catch a nerf, but their base abilities remained unchanged. Later in 2018, due to community outcry and Titan's effectively saying "what the shit, you killed our bubble and gave warlocks this?!" Bungie would in Shadowkeep reintroduce Weapons of Light in Ward of Dawn, and separate it from Sentinel
Here we are, five years later in a Post-Light 3.0 Era of Destiny 2 and Well of Radiance' dominance is once again making the rounds. This time it's coming with not only damage resistance, healing, and boosted weapon damage, we are seeing it being paired with an exotic that also grants you infinite grenades that apply a debuff to enemies that make them explode with even more damage.
So, not only is Well the best survivability and support super in the game at the moment, it's arguably one of the best DPS supers in the game when paired with said exotic and you cycle your abilities properly.
Charlemagne Warmind doesn't provide class breakdowns in their reported raid metas, but it's safe to say that Solar Warlock and Well of Radiance paired with Starfire Protocol is the current king of the castle, whether it be in the Day 1 Raid or otherwise.
This ability has been problematic since the launch of Forsaken, and to deny that would be like denying that the sky is up and the ground is down, but with the Destiny Community being unable to agree on whether or not Oryx is in the front of the arena or the back of the arena, who's to say?
I don't know what the solution to this problem is, Starfire Protocol absolutely needs to catch a nerf, and perhaps we need to return to the days of "the support super can only do one thing at a time" where if you want weapon damage the Warlock needs to run Empowering Rift and Well just turns into a superpowered version of that, and if you want healing you have to run Healing Rift and if you want both you need two Warlocks.
Either way, this ability was an example of busted power creep in 2017, and has been a mandatory pick for raid groups since its inception. 6 years later, it's only gotten stronger. This is absolutely worth discussion, and hopefully we can do that without calling for one anothers' heads.

So from the lore of Conditional Finality, we learn that Savathûn stole The Veil from Nezarec's Pyramid, then placing it on Neptune. Where it was discovered and used by the Ishtar Collective to create Neomuna and The CloudArk.
Originally I had speculated that Savathûn and Nezarec found it hidden on Neptune. Savathûn using The Veil to weaken and curse Nezarec, framing him for it's loss, and then leaving it hidden on Neptune where she found it for possible contingencies. This appears not to be the case (though I still do believe she did use the Veil to defeat Nezarec).
It makes me wonder...where was The Veil housed before all this? Had it always been in the Witnesses hands before this? Or was it hidden elsewhere?
I'm spitballing here, but what if prior to all this it was originally housed in the Black Garden? If so, that could potentially explain how the Vex (under the influence of The Witness) could have even made a failed but functional copy to begin with. Even using leftover residue or material to create said copy.
This could also mean The Sol Divisive were not originally in The Witnesses service. It could explain why they sometimes serve it willingly, while other times being reluctant or unwilling to comply to it's orders.
Afterall, didn't it seem a bit strange that if the Sol Divisive fully served The Witness...that the Taken would be sent in to destroy the Conceptual Mind? If the Sol Divisive fully served The Witness, I expect the Conceptual Mind would've self-destructed on it's command.
So it makes me wonder if The Veil originally came from The Black Garden and was hidden there.

Velask, friends.
No clue how this popped into my head, but I'm sharing my suffering with you now. Yes, this is a shitpost, but there may be something to it. A pseudoshitpost, if you will.
Yours in the Light ∧ Darkness,
u/ForgingSingularities
​
Everyone in the Destiny universe seems to be obsessed with eating weird shit. As an incomplete list:

• The Drifter thinks with his stomach, not his brain. Everything from Eliksni to Hive eyes.
• The Hive Worms survive by consuming the spoils of Hive conquest. Savathun even attempted to circumvent this via Imbaru.
• In the opening mission to Lightfall, Calus says he wants to devour Sol.
• In Root of Nightmares, Nezarec talks about eating pain and tasting paracausality.
• Of course, the most obvious and extreme, Ahamkara eat wishes, the gap between reality-as-is and reality-as-desired.

Thus, in the spirit of u/Sp00kyD0gg0 and their theory of the Witness' weird mouth, I wish to extend that to a new area of lore research: Astrogastronomy (or alternatively gAstronomy or g(astro)²nomy), the study of paracausal diets.

This post is to discuss how the universe of Destiny works in many of their different dimensions and spaces, this is a basic mechanics understanding of each location, not all the planets will be present though, just talking about how dimensions, realities, timelines and universes works.

Main Universe

The universe of Destiny is much like our real universe, it is roughly 13.4 billion years old, it's stars are born with the means of making life possible (at least for humans) and expands as well. However, in this series there are things that are revealed that would expand real world understandings and clarify speculations.
While described as an infinite universe, it is also infinite in both time and space. There are a countably infinite number of stars that permeates the universe.

Dimensions/Realms/Planes

Unknown Space
The Unknown Space is the mysterious realm where the Nine reside, shadows of the nine worlds of the Sol System. It is entered from our universe by couple ways, either a vast wormhole or from the Haul of the Drifter's ship. It exists outside of linear time and plays host to multiple events such as Trials of the Nine, The Reckoning and Dares of Eternity.
Ascendant Plane
The Ascendant Plane or Realm is an extra layer in reality where thoughts, feelings and emotions take shape, it is a reflection of what the inhabitants feel. It is where pocket universes called Throne Worlds are commonly created, which can range from the Hive Gods, to Scorn or even Awoken. Those who have a deep understanding of the mechanics of the Ascendant Realm could accomplish these things.
The Ascendant Realm is permeated with Ley Lines which are paracausal pathways which those who knows how to use them can traverse the Ascendant Plane and the Material Universe.
Vex Network
The Vex Network is a deeper space where the Vex attempt to craft themselves and that space into the fabric of the universe. Mithrax describes it as a potential reality. It is normally incorporeal to regular causal beings, however paracausal beings can manifest themselves inside it for an amount of time.
Vex Spaces
There have been known locations in the main universe where the Vex have experimented on spaces. The Vault of Glass where they created a wound in time and experimented with Ontological and temporal powers, where universes crash against one another and exists as a bulk space.
Another space on Io called the Pyramidion which is described as Hilbert Space, which is an uncountably infinite dimensional space, where one traverses to millions upon millions of realities.
Then there is the Infinite Forest where the Vex calculates, simulates and plans their actions and architecture in reality, it is where they manipulate time in ways that they can generate uncountably infinite realities that is of a fractal expansion, and can take on multiple iterations of itself.
Simulations are realities that Vex created and have influence over as a way to achieve a form of precognition of material realities, sometimes they are intangible, within the minds of certain Vex, or they can be physical to others. They are described by others as being inside the pocket of the universe that the Vex simulate.
Black Gardens
These are realms that are outside the boundaries of time itself. There are multiple Gardens and they can even be rooted into the main universe, or possibly taken out of it. The Gardens grow in both directions, to tomorrow or yesterday, where even abstract concepts have influences there too.
Throne Worlds
The Throne Worlds are pocket universes created by the might of individuals, reflections of their own natures, created in their own image, and where they define the rules. Their size are usually a reflection of how strong the one who created them. They are created from the Ascendant Realm where thoughts and feelings are shaped.
Mindscapes
The Mindscapes are dimensions that are formed from psychic attuned beings that creates pocket dimensions that manifests the mental aspects of individuals, They can be formed by Psion beings, or Nightmares.
Darkness Dimension
Though there are no further information, according to Clovis Bray I, from studying the Clarity Control artifact, it is a structure that originated from outside the main universe.
The Void
The Void is where individuals draw on the element Void energies, this is also describes as the vacuum between stars, the absence of light and matter, and is tied to quantum space as well. There are tiny realms that are described as endless measurements, which could also be related to being infinities between spaces. It even has ties to the mechanics of Throne Worlds too.

The Weave

The Weave is an alternate psychic dimension associated with the Darkness power Strand, it is tied to the psychic energy of all life.

Other Realities/Timelines/Multiverses

Distributary
With the collision of the power between the Traveler and the Pyramids created a Kugelblitz, which formed a black hole that sucked in the people of the Yang Liwei ship, changed into the Awoken. It is 12.1 billion years old, isotropic and it's metallicity is abundant enough for life to exist. The Distributary is a parallel universe where it's history is different from that of the main universe's, it is also an infinite universe as well, being inside the main universe and describing that there are infinities larger than others, however being inside a Black Hole, time dilates differently between the two realities, as time moves slower outside than inside.
Alternate Timelines
Throughout Destiny's story, there have been multitudes of infinite different timelines and split off from one another, or with other universes in parallel to the main one with the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.
There are even the fractured timelines when attempting to change things in the past with the Sundial or walking through the Corridors of Time.
Dark Future
The Dark Future is one of many timelines that the Exo Stranger Elsie Bray traversed through as a way to find how to survive the return of the Darkness, each one different form the other with how she interacts with them, but each of then ended in defeat and death of humanity.Vex FutureWith the Vex seeking convergence, where everything, including life has been reduced to simplistic, meaningless form.

OtheArtificial/Pocket Dimensions/Spaces/Realms

Paraverses
Paraverses are universes that are beyond Destiny universe's realm of understanding and rules, where to gaze on it's impossible objects would rend minds of individuals. It is even tied to other franchises of games that are made by the same company that made Destiny, such as Halo) and Marathon.
​
Thoughts?

So in this post I want to discuss Strand, specifically it's physical manifestation. I believe it is a paracausal magnetic superposition and that many of it's visual properties can be observed in extremely high magnetic fields in which the field lines become braided, tangled or twisted into magnetic flux ropes.
I wrote a post before the release of Lightfall hypothesizing that Strand would be linked to String Theory and Panpsychism. While some of the concepts mentioned in that post are still important for understanding Strand (such as the hard problem of consciousness), in many ways it was off the mark. While mention of the "fabric of the universe" and the stringy nature of Strand seemed to allude to String Theory, this seems to be, at least at this stage, superficial at best.

Matter of Perception

Before we get into my analysis however it should be stated that what I will be discussing is the physical manifestation. During Lightfall Osiris elaborates on the Light's connection to the physical world and the manipulation of the fundamental forces that govern all interactions. He explains how Darkness is specifically tied to the mental world; consciousness, dreams and memory. He also says that the Light and Darkness form a paracausal union. A conjunction of intangible conscious realities.
We are told that both Strand and Stasis are tied to perception. They are metaphysical patterns stemming from the mind given form or shape by the one wielding it. Stasis for instance is about control over your environment whereas Strand is about relinquishing that control. Osiris elaborates:

Strand is the elemental manifestation of psychic connection. All minds are connected in a web of consciousness which we can now see and feel. To wield Strand is to pull on the hidden connecting threads and to use them to create, manipulate and unravel. Unlike Stasis, mastering Strand seems to require one to relinquish control, to embrace the connecting threads and perhaps flow with them.

It should be stated however that while Strand and Stasis are tied to perception, the effects that they manifest as are still physical, tangible and measurable. Take Stasis for instance. That metaphysical mental pattern underlying the need for control over one's environment manifests as highly-ordered negentropic time crystals. These crystals are still able to be analyzed under a microscope.
Similarly, Strand was manifested by us when we pulled the first thread so to speak. It took on a form of weaving; threads, ropes and strings; at least at a superficial level. But we are told the physical manifestation could have been very different had the Neomuni discovered it first, perhaps manifesting as cosmic water.

Paracausal Superposition

With that out of the way I want to discuss how Strand manifests physically and scientifically. We get some clues fairly early on. We are told that Strand is a byproduct of the Veil and Ghost analyses it concluding it is "like some sort of magnetic field all around Neomuna". Then Osiris ponders this new found power and says:

"A paracausal superposition. Like magnetic poles."

Now it could be easy to read this as talking about quantum superposition, a fundamental concept in quantum mechanics that describes the ability of a quantum system to be in multiple states simultaneously. However what Osiris is referring to is an entirely different concept altogether: magnetic superposition.

Magnetic superposition is a property of magnetic fields that describes how the magnetic fields from two or more sources can add together to create a combined magnetic field. This is similar to the way that forces can be added together in classical mechanics, where two forces can be combined to create a net force. In magnetic superposition, the magnetic field vectors add together and can either reinforce or cancel each other out, depending on their orientation and relative strengths.

So in simpler terms, it represents the superposition of a bunch of magnetic fields that all add up together. As we will see, magnetic fields are ubiquitous in nature. They are generated on an astronomical level in the planets and stars.
But they are also generated by all life.
While these "bio-magnetic" fields may be weak, the fact that this is a "paracausal superposition" suggests that the magnetic field lines are not limited to fields within our universe, but are perhaps a superposition of magnetic field lines from beyond.

Fluid Dynamics

While magnetism may seem like a relatively simple concept, it actually is responsible for a number of physical phenomena that can inform us on how Strand "flows". One of our biggest clues for this comes from the lore tab for Final Warning, a gun that apparently functions as an Atmospheric Spectrometer. We read:

The odd capabilities this "Final Warning" harbors have long been suspected by Dr. Sundaresh to be a byproduct of the Veil, replicating energy signatures we most often observe in fluid dynamics. With that in mind, I propose we begin testing the ability to engage that energy using both the Magnus and gyroscopic effects. We attempt to create a "paracausal skipping stone," if you will.

Fluid dynamics is a branch of physics that deals with the motion of fluids, including liquids and gases in the atmosphere. The Magnus effect and gyroscopic effects are both phenomena that arise from fluid dynamics, and are involved in the motion of objects through fluids.

• The Magnus effect, for example, is the force that causes a spinning object, like a spinning ball or a frisbee, to curve in flight.
• Gyroscopic effects arise when a spinning object experiences a force perpendicular to its rotation axis, causing it to move in a different direction.

Both of these forces also help explain skipping stones on water.
The take away here is that the Final Warning is taking advantage of these effects in order for its targeting capabilities to curve with the flow of Strand lines or increase direct line accuracy. But it hints at something more important, the fact that Strand flows like a fluid as well as it's relationship with the atmosphere.
It's quite possible that the Final Warning is an atmospheric magnetic spectrometer specifically used for studying Neptune's erratic magnetic field and its interaction with the atmosphere. Given Neptune's extreme erratic magnetic field and tendency to experience geomagnetic storms, it's not unlikely that a device like this would exist. It is also fitting thematically that just as we discovered an "ice-like" power on the icy world of Europa, we now discover a "magnetic-like" power on a gas giant with a highly erratic magnetic field.
If we take the fields of fluid dynamics and magnetism and combine them we actually get another field of science that can actually help us elucidate a lot about how Strand behaves and manifests.

Magnetohydrodynamics

Magnetohydrodynamics is a branch of physics that studies the behavior of electrically conducting fluids, such as plasmas, in the presence of magnetic fields.
It's useful for studying atmospheric effects caused by planetary magnetic fields and plasma in our Sun because these phenomena involve the interaction of magnetic fields with fluids.
It combines the principles of magnetism and fluid dynamics to understand phenomena such as the solar wind, the aurora borealis and the magnetic fields of planets.
Why is it of interest to us? As we will see, the fluid nature of Strand is quite comparable to the fluid dynamics of magnetic fields in electrically conducting fluids.
Magnetic field lines are often depicted as smooth, continuous curves as we can see in this concept art for Strand. But they can also form more complex structures in certain situations. For example, in plasmas (ionized gases), magnetic field lines can become tangled and form complex structures known as magnetic reconnection events.
In some contexts, magnetic field lines can also be thought of as "threads" that are woven through space. For example, in topology (the study of geometric shapes and their properties) and more specifically Magnetic topology, magnetic field lines can be described using mathematical techniques that involve the concept of "knots" and "links".
This is perhaps nowhere more evident than in our Sun.

Stellar Magnetism

While it may seem oddly tangential to talk about the Sun is relation to Strand it can actually give us a glimpse into how Strand behaves and flows. The Sun is a giant ball of plasma, and as such, magnetohydrodynamics plays a crucial role in understanding the physics of the Sun.
The Sun's magnetic field is generated by the motion of plasma within the Sun's interior. The magnetic field is not uniform and varies in strength and direction, forming sunspots, coronal loops, and other magnetic structures on the surface of the Sun.
Sunspots, which are cooler areas on the Sun's surface, produce very intense magnetic fields! The intensity causes the magnetic field lines to be twisted so much that they become tangled and frozen in the plasma, resulting in explosive releases of energy known as solar flares and coronal mass ejections that can affect Earth's atmosphere and technology.
Natural systems like the Sun's corona or even the Earth's magnetosphere can produce some very interesting phenomena that I believe are observed in Strand.

• A Magnetic Flux Rope is a twisted bundle of magnetic field lines that can occur in plasma within areas of strong magnetic activity. They can be thought of as magnetic "tubes" with a twisted or helical shape. They bear a striking resemblance to grapples and even threadlings.
• A Magnetic Tangle refers to the complex, twisted, and knotted configuration of magnetic field lines. They are a result of the complex behavior of magnetic fields in turbulent plasma and can arise spontaneously or through magnetic reconnection events. The magnetic flux in these tangles is frozen and stores vast amounts of energy. These are obviously comparable to Strand tangles.
• Magnetic Reconnection is a phenomenon that occurs when oppositely directed magnetic field lines break and then reconnect in a different configuration, like pulling apart and then reconnecting two ends of a magnet. This releases a large amount of magnetic energy that is converted into kinetic energy and heat, and can accelerate charged particles to high energies. This is comparable to the explosion caused by shooting a tangle.
• Auroras are caused by magnetic reconnection events , which are colorful displays of light that occur in the Earth's atmosphere at high latitudes. Coincidentally, a green aurora is typically caused by the interaction of charged particles from the Sun with oxygen atoms in the Earth's atmosphere. To me the way Strand glows as well as the waves produced by tangle explosions bear striking resemblance.

We can start to see the how Strand imitates the way magnetic field lines behave in large astronomical bodies, but what about it's relationship to consciousness and the so-called "web of life"?

Biomagnetism

Magnetism has played a vital role in various natural phenomena, including the seeding of the first stars, the structure of our galaxy. and plays a critical role in the behavior of charged particles in space.
Moreover it is important for life. Magnetism is known to have produced Magnetoreception in some organisms, such as migratory birds, which use the Earth's magnetic field to navigate. Life also produces a weak bio-magnetic field due to the presence of charged particles in living organisms, such as ions and electrically charged molecules. This bio-magnetic field is believed to play a role in various biological processes, including cell communication and regulation.
The biomagnetic field affects cell communication by influencing the movement of charged particles across cell membranes. Cell membranes are selectively permeable, meaning that they allow certain substances to pass through while blocking others. The movement of charged particles across cell membranes is critical for many cellular processes, including nerve signaling and muscle contraction.

Neuromagnetism

The brain also produces a magnetic field, which is known as the "neuromagnetic field". This field is produced by the electrical activity of neurons in the brain, which generates tiny magnetic fields that can be measured outside the head using specialized equipment, such as Magnetoencephalography.
This field is thought to be involved in the communication between different regions of the brain and in the coordination of neural activity. The brains magnetic field can also be used to study the neural correlates of various cognitive processes, such as perception, attention, and memory.
Some scientists have proposed that the magnetic resonance of the brain may even play a role in the emergence of subjective experience by facilitating the integration of information across different regions of the brain. This research can be seen in this article "Solving the “Hard Problem”: Consciousness as an Intrinsic Property of Magnetic Fields".
Our consciousness is the state of being aware of things around us and within ourselves. Biological consciousness is our ability as living beings to be aware of and respond to different types of experiences, like sensory information (sight, sound, touch, etc.), emotions, and thoughts.
When we are focused on something in particular, like a physical sensation or a task we're trying to complete, certain parts of our brain become more active and produce electrical signals. This activity creates magnetic fields in the same area (which can be picked up by Magnetic resonance imaging). These magnetic fields can help the brain pay attention to the sensations or thoughts that are most important at that moment.
It's likely that our conscious experiences and our current state of consciousness are related to this localized electrical and chemical activity in our brains. The magnetic information created by this activity can help different parts of the brain communicate with each other and respond quickly to new information, like threats or opportunities.
In short, our consciousness is influenced by the electrical signals in our brains, and these signals also create magnetic fields that can help our brains respond to the world around us.

Noetic Effects

We even get some lore in the Hidden Dossier that elaborates on the connection between magnetism and qualia. The lore talks about the explanatory gap.

The explanatory gap is the difference between what they learn inside the room and what they see outside. The gap between knowing everything about color and actually seeing a color. In this gap lives the idea of “qualia,” the first-person experiences of the mind. You cannot describe or communicate qualia; you can only have them.

It then explains how this was solved:

We solved the explanatory gap. Golden Age philosophers correctly identified the difference between the education of color and the experience of color. Experience occurs in the brain. Qualia, no matter how ineffable, are the result of physical processes. If the Gray Room Dweller had never experienced Red, it was because the neural correlates of the qualia Red had never been activated. Give the Gray Room Dweller a dose of hallucinogens, or an EMP to the right part of the brain, and they could experience all the colors imaginable without ever leaving their black-and-white room.

This relationship of magnetism to consciousness and Darkness is further gleaned from the experience with the K1 anomaly.

A black sphere—nothing could be simpler—and yet it is awesome, unspeakably complex, compactly infinite, full of as many things as it could possibly contain. We cannot spend long near it. Its electromagnetic flux is too subtle to burn through the fieldweave in our suits or cause any real harm, but we can't assume it'll stay that way. If the field spikes, it could force our nerves to fire, even drive us into seizure. High-Tesla magnetic fields do strange things to the mind.

In fact the noetic fields caused by the artifact were so bad that it's stated crew had to wear "Enhanced fieldweave for neural electromagnetic insulation".

Conclusion

Discover hidden connections. Fashion them into whatever you desire.

So in conclusion we can see a clear comparison between how Strand manifests physically with magnetic phenomena at both the astronomical and biological level. Connection, tangles, and flux ropes are phenomena of magnetism we can observe in our Sun and Earth's magnetosphere. This visualization continues with Strand.
But although it is like a magnetic field, it is clearly so much more.
It is a Paracausal Superposition of magnetic field lines produced by all life, in our universe and beyond. While the biomagnetic fields that life produces are weak, a paracausal superposition could explain why the Guardians are able to perceive these hidden connections and manipulate the fabric of reality at both the physical and the mental level.
Since the field is ubiquitous and connected to not only biological processes, but neurological processes as well - it explains how the Guardian can act a conduit and move with the flow of these paracausal magnetic field lines, twisting them and bending them according to their minds will.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
TL;DR: Strand is a paracausal superposition and is connected to the superposition of magnetic field lines throughout our universe and beyond. The fluid nature of Strand is comparable to the fluid dynamics of intense magnetic fields in a star's plasma or a planet's magnetosphere. The entanglement and contortion of strong magnetic fields can give rise to intricate structures like magnetic flux ropes and magnetic tangles. Magnetism also plays a crucial role in biological and neurological processes, with evidence suggesting that the brain's magnetic field may even give rise to subjective experience. Together, these factors contribute to our understanding of how Strand manifests.

I made a big post a while back the essence of which is that the true war in Destiny is not light vs dark, but form vs formless, and that our true enemy is peace. This was pre WQ mind you so I had to stretch to speculate on “the voice in the deep” that turned out to be the witness.
The long and short of it was that there are two forms of balance, light smothered by darkness,trapped in a hot black sea like cystic stars, or light freed from the deep, sharpened by a little darkness and given purposeful form. What is hard to swallow about this is that the light given form, the type of balance that births life and that we live in now, is born out of conflict, and the formless balance of smothering blackness is actually the only way to achieve truly endless peace. So depending on how you look at it, “peace”, in the wrong form, is actually our enemy.
This all lined up pretty perfectly with what we found out to be the witness and it’s probable endgoal.
The important part I want to highlight from that post though is about the anthem anatheme. I don’t want to repost all the lore bits here, but essentially there is an inextricable link between the dragons, both worms and ahamkara, and the void and unreality. Anti-matter and the void get connected with all kinds of things like un-fire, un-maws, and most importantly un-reality. These are also tied to the deep, the ascendant, and the primordial broth.
I speculated that anthem anatheme works as such:
-The dragons eat matter or reality (the finest flesh), and poop out anti-matter, or unreality.
-they do so by ontological rules, that essentially seem to work around reality not being good enough for the wisher, and if it is not good enough it is a failed shape. “NO LISTEN PLEASE the ontopathic predator the chimera which has Riven your Desires from Your Intents It Wanted You Here just as all life must feed on an energy gradient it feeds on the separation between Subjective Desire and Objective Reality… As the Human body breaks down Matter for Fuel so she desires the digestion of Objectivity to conform to your Subjective Will. She is the acid but you are the mouth which eats.”
When reality isn’t good enough you wish it away, and it is replaced with un-reality.
-the worms and ahamkara are evolutionarily divergent but grow in the same niche so to speak. “Ahamkara and worm may have evolved separately to exploit this effect, just as many species independently evolve eyes. This might place them in competition for the same ecological niche. I would expect a rivalry or antipathy between them.” they both feed on anthem anatheme and the desires of mortals, and the failures of reality.
I’ve speculated the difference between their feeding is that the worms feed on those drowning in the deep, often of the dark, while the ahamkara feed on those drifting in the sky, often of the light.
Those drowning in the deep (the figurative deep, not the literal “perfect void” of the witness) have one purpose, survival. They cannot afford to wish for anything else. Hence worms are singular and violent in their shape and give only violent power.
Those adrift in the sky want for nothing, and so their wishes will be vapid and fleeting, ever shifting, and so too are the ahamkara and the wishes they grant.
Again the key in both cases is reality isn’t good enough for the wisher.
This is where the new raid lore starts to come in and confirm some things for me. I don’t think it’s up on Ishtar yet so you can find it all here
From “a dream of a metaphor…”
Look: there are a hundred gildings for this story. It comes down to one key matter. Beings in suffering crave purpose to carry them through. The tyrant consumed by ennui or the disenfranchised struggling simply to survive—it is the state of mind, the pain which cries out: give me a reason I should suffer so! Let us speak of power and choices.
This passage uses tyrant, which applies well to calus and Clovis and the like, but really any without purpose in the sky fall victim to ennui (a feeling of listlessness and dissatisfaction arising from a lack of occupation or excitement.) and again those in the deep cannot afford to seek a purpose beyond survival.
In managerie, Calus says of the hive: ”The hive are driven by their hunger. There is weakness in their grasping, and you punished them for it”
Alternatively the witness scolds Calus: ”You have no purpose because you fear to seek one. That fear is your weakness”
The dragons exploit this weakness, a lack of purpose. They consume it, and they consume reality in the process. Reality has been built, by the gardener and winnower, by cosmic forces and emergent patterns, by simple life growing and evolving, by complex life creating and thriving. But if this shape that is built has weaknesses in its foundation, it will be reduced and torn down
Something that isn’t in that other post is the idea that the worms and ahamkara might essentially be actual worms, or at least perform the same role they do.
In unveiling, as the gardener and winnower “battle” and that battle creates the physical universe, it says: ”And still we grappled. Our rolling bodies pushed things out of the garden—worms and scurrying life from the fertile soil, wet things from the pools and the leaves. They came out into the madness of primordial space; they thrashed and became large.”
We know the Vex are the physical version of the winning shape within the garden, but in the metaphor that shape is represented by the flowers. I believe the things below in the soil are separate, functions of the garden itself, the gameboard not the pieces. Plus they became large thrashing things I mean duh worms lol
Think about the actual purpose of a worm. It reduces dead and rotten plants, returning them to the soil. Failed shapes without a purpose are given a purpose by being turned back into fuel for the garden.
Now slight bird walking here but bear with me. This post by Lettucedifferent recently made some really good points about some of the science behind how the resonance power of the pyramids might work. This once again ties into new raid lore, and the part I’m especially interested in is this:
“Particles are localized, resonant excitations of these fields, vibrating like springs in an infinite mattress. The frequencies at which quantum fields prefer to vibrate stem from fundamental constants whose origins remain obscure; these frequencies in turn determine the masses of the corresponding particles. Blast the vacuum of empty space hard enough at the right frequency, and out will pop a bunch of particles.”
To put it more stupidly, energy vibrating meaninglessly in a chaotic cacophony will continue to be formless in the void, while energy made to resonate, or given purpose will take form. Lettuce also pointed out the idea of phantom energy, negatively charged antimatter, and again to put it stupidly its property of potential tearing apart or breaking down reality even eventually tearing apart the fundamental pillars of space and time
This is destiny, you can’t only look at space magic from its scientific counterpart. The physical effects of paracausal energy stem from philosophical causes. But with that idea of resonance giving wild energy purpose and shape, and the counterpart breakdown of it, take a look at the new raid lore
From A Dream of a Metaphor:
“There is a voice that echoes across the Darkness, and it asks this question: what is the purpose of it all? And there is another voice that calls back and says: listen, I will tell you a purpose. I will tell you of a Final Shape.”
Two voices in the darkness. One is an echo, or a resonance, and simply asks “what is its purpose?”
The darkness, it’s resonance, finds the purpose in the light, and gives it meaningful form. We’ve always known that it reaped what was sown but the key that lightfall has given us is the idea of purpose. Understanding purpose reveals the entire point bungie wants to make with Destiny.
What is the root of all nightmares?
Another left turn I know but this is a good one. The visuals and themes of the raid can be boiled down to a single word, primordial. Primordial light and primordial dark fight/fuck and create primordial life. Light is concentrated into small bulbs, polyps, eyes, and is surrounded by the hard shells and tough bark of darkness. This is reflected in the growths, the gear, and Nezi boy himself. Simple purposeful forms are all that may exist.
Savathun makes a point of this in the raid lore
From Phantasm of the hive:
“My father's worm did not tell me only of swords. It had vast things to say, painted the cosmos in shine and gore, truth and fiction. I looked forward with three clear eyes and chose the path of the sword to cut open our future. To reach the stars, first one must crawl out of the ocean. It is a question of priorities...”
This sentiment was echoed in Unveiling too:
“The fall was necessary for creation to escape its first imperfect stasis and seek a truer form.”
Reality was cut from Unreality with a sword. Life is and always has been conflict, not peace. The place of tension, the violence of growth, the thin line between light and dark.
And in the old garden, that was enough. A simple logic for simple flowers like the vex. But in our new game there are new rules. Vex cannot suffer without souls. Vex cannot be lost in ennui or feel injustice at their struggle to survive.
In every level of existence, in any metaphor or framework, we have left the deep. We have crawled out of the old garden, out of the oceans, out of our cradles, out of the very dirt and into the stars.
But can we let go of the sword? Can we as they say, beat it into a ploughshare? We’ve left the deep but has the deep left us? Can we leave the trauma behind?
“…That whisper of ideas beyond swords is here to stay: I have ensured this. Even among us, such things die by slow inches, excruciating and unquiet. Possibility remains, a secret woven into the blank spaces of dogma. That what was defeated may rise again; that the shape of all shapes is not yet settled. That the worms need the Hive more than is reciprocal. Even between the lines of the Books of Sorrow themselves is this written.”
When we deign to dream of things beyond the deep, beyond the soil, beyond the sword, we are challenged.
When you whisper to the void, does it whisper back?
We are challenged by whispers. The voices of the unreal, the nothing, the dead. Whispers from beyond, from disembodied memories and nightmares. The worms, the ahamkara, Nezarec, they cannot die because death is for the living. Nezerac specifically feeds on the fear of returning to the deep, the memories of pain and swords burned into our very DNA. They haunt us because we remember them, because the memory of our collective trauma is burnt into the weft of what was, the void. They are only real because we make them real, they need us more than is reciprocal. But of course this is destiny, this philosophical idea of nightmares manifests as tangible locations and bosses to shoot.
The root of all nightmares is our violent past, our violent evolution. The very thing that gives us a soul can rob us of our humanity.
(Its also interestingly, the one thing the vex lacked coming into our world. They never grew with competition, and they are left soulless with nothing but the dull curiosity of a cockroach as Clovis puts it)
When we claw our way out of the deep and reach the sky, we don’t know where to go. We likely lose our purpose
From A dream of a metaphor:
“A man comes to a crossroads and asks of the sky, "Which road shall I take?" There is no answer from the sky, nor the wind, nor the earth beneath his feet. But another wanderer on the road, coming from behind and hearing the question, says, "I know the way. You should take the dexter road." If the man agrees, he puts himself in the wanderer's power, ceding his own choices for the implicit promise that this is the correct road, the safe road. And if he disagrees? Let us say that the wanderer draws a knife. The man may therefore be made to take the dexter road. But now if the knife goes away, the man will certainly flee. And perhaps even if the knife remains, the man may tire of being threatened and decide the risk is worth fleeing. In this way, the wanderer erodes their own power.
If the wanderer says, "The wind has said that you should take the road of my choosing," ((the ahamkara if my ideas are correct)) will the man accept the choice made for him? And if the wanderer says, "Behold, I have seen that the meaning of suffering lies along the dexter road," ((the worms))will the man give away his own power for longer Is it not easier to accept the guidance of a stranger when the path ahead is unknown?”
I hope by this point I don’t need to explain my take on the passage above.
When we get out of the deep and are given choice, our purpose may be lost. And with purpose lost our path may be subverted by the wanderer who provides it under threat or lies
This is the witness fundamental argument. When we leave the deep, we drift. The path is no longer clear, the logic is no longer simple, and the lack of a purpose brings only pain. Our new game outside the garden has room for bottomless suffering, and that is what all it’s disciples have chosen.
LET THEM COME AND SEE, OUR SHAPE REVEALED. WHAT THEY DO THEN, UNSHACKLED FROM HOPE, THAT IS WHO THEY ARE
Time after time the witness and the many whispers have challenged life and time after time it has failed.
Fundament is our first case study and, fundamentally, the problem that has persisted throughout the universe in destiny.
The ammonites (which btw are the names of the types of fossils we find in the RoN) are in the sky with the traveler, while the hive are slowly drowning in the deep. We now know the traveler intended to uplift the hive as well, but before it got the chance the hive turned to the deep and the power of the worms, and they did so because of a threat (literally whispers) of their end.
In the community and in game, people often gripe that the traveler does nothing. But what of the ammonites? What did they do with their light after they clawed their way into the sky? They left the krill to rot. They hoarded their resources and when the hive became a threat and took the deep to them they begged on their knees
I went more into this in the other post but Mara talks about balance and says:
“I believe in balance. But to seek balance is not to seek equity. A sea half of water and half of poison is not in balance. A body half alive and half dead is not in balance… I think a world of balance would fight the Darkness, because Darkness unchecked is Darkness thriving. We must remember the value of unshakable, irrational hope. The choice to act as if we lived in a better world can create a place for that better world to exist.”
There is a purpose for those in the sky, but it’s not one the witness will whisper, nor is it one the traveler can afford to speak. It must be decided on one’s own because it must be selfless. To avoid that listless ennui they must turn their attention to those who are drowning, and lift them out. They must not be consumed by fear of being dragged back down, or the selfish temptation to revel in their own excess. We cannot afford to regress to the sword, to that place we crawled from.
A line from the seasonal activity shows humanity is stepping to the challenge where so many others haven’t:
“You wanna know what really got to me? At the Farm, I heard some of the folks I was locked up with asking when they could get back out and look for more survivors. I mean, I expect it from Guardians and the other pilots, but... these were civvies, just folks who got caught up in the Shadow Legion sweep. They still wanted to help.
I asked Mithrax to talk some sense into 'em, but he shrugged, like, three of his arms, and said, "The Witness created heroes instead of victims."
Honestly most of the seasonal story is kind of on the nose about this point. But what of those drowning? This is arguably the harder pill to swallow.
The leviathans final argument to the hive before they turn to the deep is this
What power calls you++++Down to the deep?—++What instinct draws you——Away from high hope?++
—Quick-breeding krill people, I tell you++ ++For eons I have watched your struggle— —Clinging to the sharp edge of survival++ ++Balanced between the Deep and the Sky.— ++You were my treasure——My proof against despair++—FOR THIS IS THE DEEP CLAIM—++Existence is the struggle to exist——When the struggle seems lost++++when the safe place crumbles——everything turns to the Deep to survive++++I REJECT THE DEEP CLAIM++—You will turn back, sweet krill of hope.±±++You will choose the Sky instead.—
They didn’t, and to be fair to do so would mean certain death as far as they knew. It was a lie, a lie the leviathan and traveler could not reveal or their choice would not be true. They were to be the “proof against despair”, but in failing to stand against the deep they are proof for it. All the disciples and races that have chosen to stand with the witness are it’s proof against life.
To choose the sky in the deep is to choose death for the sake of those better off than you, and can we really blame the hive for choosing the sword against the apathetic ammonites?
But again, humanity has stood out. The cloud striders stand as a clear example of sacrifice, building the future on the back of their own death. Guardians are basically infinite martyr machines, and while Rohan and others may quip about our “spare lives”, our immortality has been proven temporary over and over, and whether it’s one of many or a final death we spend it in service of those we protect.
Not only that but as a species we have brought in the other races, those who would live for us as we’d live for them.
This is the only way to build the shield surrounded by spears, the only purpose that can answer the whispers.
All life must choose a selfless purpose, to make their purpose each other regardless of the cost. This is the only defence against the whispers, the only way reality can prosper, the only way a new shape can grow.
Now there’s one final thing I want to get into but if you’re tapping out here I don’t blame you this is really long already lol. The final thing I want to get into is un-reality, the source of the whispers and the final shape if we fail to find our purpose
I’m pretty tired so I’m kinda just gonna spark notes my general thinking on what the un-real actually is. Some of this is already backed up by lore in the other post
-the void is tied to unreality, death, and gravity. Gravity we aren’t really worried about but the other two we definitely are
-the soul or memory goes to the void after death. Thanatonaut guardians die repeatedly to get visions of the void, and void powers revolve around death like how devour is essentially ripping your enemies soul back from the void after death to power yourself
-the nine as an example are in the void and of antimatter, and didn’t get consciousnesses and personality until life populated the sol system. The names of the nine realms when we visit them are things like heaven/hell and eternity. I believe the nine realms are where in the void our memories/souls happen to be ending up
-in the new lore Mara remembers the primordial broth the awoken entered when the light and dark ripped a hole in reality to a new untouched place, but specifically regarding the witness and the fiery rage it harbours:
“A cacophony, an overwhelming weight of presence and thought and intent. A person, but not a person. More than that. Imagine if that first place where we the Awoken came to be had been nothing but screaming chaos.
In the noise, in the oppressive weight, I learn pieces as delicate as spiderwebs, as scattered as stars. I lay them out along each other in my thoughts. Here is purpose—not a singular thesis, but the idea of purpose, vicious and brilliant and driven as I ever was. Here is a shape—I see it as a sharpness, like a starless cutout against a distant galaxy, made clear in the negative space.”
-the ascendant plane, the realm that Amanda says is all the witnesses, is the home of the screaming taken. It is after riven is taken that she not only whispers but has “one terrible scream”
-personally I believe the witness is dead, or more accurately many dead. Nezerac says the veil holds the secrets of its “first sapid victims”, but I believe it is the victims. By birthing a universe with souls, the gardener also birthed suffering. I think all those who died screaming and suffering began to fill the void. Their memories collected into a pile of uncontrollable pain and hatred in the deep of the void. They found purpose in the pain where they had found no purpose in life. The ascendant is hell, a hell of the travelers making
-the traveler has never made guardians before, never resurrected anyone. Perhaps it tried when it felt sad watching life die, and pulled a pet cemetery creating the witness. I’ve also seen decent theories that ghosts are souls pulled from the witness itself
-the reason worms and ahamkara don’t die is that they inhabit the void, or unreality. Mara calls her throne world directly an “un-reality”. The worms were turned up from the garden, which was an unreal space originally. This is also why throne worlds make sense as a function of the dragons, it is in the void so of course at one’s death you can enter your throne world instead because it’s just a condo in the realm of the dead. I think it’s also possible the throne worlds are the worms. It is only as the worm gods/ahamkara or the parasites within the hive grow that the throne grows. The nine are more causal inhabitants of the void but they also manifest as realms
-the worms are found at the center of fundament and the ahamkara are found inside the planetoid the reef awoken used for the dreaming city. If they are worms that inhabit the “soil” of the void, it makes sense their physical forms would burrow to the gravitational centres for comfort
-Mara is able to hold herself together in the sea of screams (when travelling between Oryx throne and her own) because of her experience in the other primordial broth, but she describes her time as much more difficult.
-The nine can make taken, Xur is the original taken. It says, among other things “the deep black is many things, but never lonely” and while in our world “there is so much light here, I suppose I feel, pain”
-I believe we will kill the witness by dying in some capacity, probably selflessly. Ikora says back in D1 that perhaps the way to beat the taken is “all the guardians throwing themselves into that void and filling it up with light”
-The nine struggle to make physical bodies because they do not understand the struggling to exist aspect of life. This might explain why dragon bodies are shape shifting and otherwise ignore physics, they aren’t real and are little more than puppets to interact with the physical, and they are paracausal in nature so of course the nine cannot master something like this. The nine also call them “false puppets” or something of the sort at one point
-death is also linked to dreaming in the Clovis bray lore, and elsewhere dreams and memories. All of it is unreal, all of it metaphysical, and now that has been connected with darkness including strand and it’s psychic web. All the lore books of the RoN raid are unreal and dreamlike things, “phantasm” “a dream” “a reverie” “a spectre”. It is all unreality and it can haunt us if we let it
-unreality doesn’t have to be negative it seems, just as darkness need not be only a blade. The last raid book ends with
“Funny, isn't it? How can you miss someone when you know they're always in the Dark? I close my eyes, and in the warm nest-hide of sleep, I know you are real and happy and out there on some other part of the world, far from the river, far from the [untranslatable] where our ancestors (dream/exist) together. But it isn't the same as having you near, knowing your truth is under the same stars. Being able to simply turn my (head/face/bloom?) and ask for your opinion. Dear sibling, come home. Live in my house, and let me (dream/exist) close to you again, whether in this shape or the new one I will take on. I will not be the same, but which of us ever is? You are not the same as you were as a child, either. No matter the form of the existence, I will love you.”
-there is a theme this season of “those who come before and sacrificed build the future”. They also fill the void. There is something important there but I’m not sure what. The dead may have created the witness in their suffering. In the same vein Nezerac may have manifested from our memories and traumas of fear and pain. But what of good memories, of those who die selflessly? What will their “proof” manifest in the void? What of the Nine, are they us? Will they be the key?
-Onto the veil. The best theories on this sub about the veiled woman have always been that it is supposed to be the Veil of Isis, the line that separates the world of the living and the dead. Bungie at one point was going to make a “race” or “group” called the Veil, and I feel I’ve made a solid argument that the things of the deep are clearly of the unreal void, and therefore the dead. The veil opened a portal to somewhere else.
-I believe the witness has lifted the veil and the portal leads to unreality. The ascendant realm and the deep (which may be one and the same) are the witness domain but clearly there are different spaces within that unreal negative space. Perhaps as the ahamkara exist un-physically separate from their bodies, maybe the gardener exists separate from the traveler
-this is out there, but perhaps these whispering forces are symbolic of the idea of the social organism. Xol is the will of the thousands and Riven is of a thousand voices. The social organism, to dumb it down a lot, is the idea that a society isn’t just a bunch of people. It is made up of people but also countless rules and procedures. Those rules come from millennia of trial and error, literally evolving to the state they are now, and supersede the will of the individuals within said society. The individuals within it inevitably fall prey to social programming as well, further removing them from control of it. IT trades and competes for resources and adapts, IT will be erased if it isn’t efficient, and will erase other social groups if doing so is opportunistic. This concept is very much reflected in the way the dragons and even Nezarec will subvert whole populations taking advantage of their more general traits, filling the void with those who lived and died by their rules and growing powerful as they do. This adds to Savathuns line about how “the worms need the hive more than is reciprocal”
-finally this all fits with the mythological theme of Gnosticism. There’s been a great many posts on gnostic themes in destiny, but taking all the above into account I believe it fits that bungie has presented a sort of “negative” gnostic theme. The witness is the gnostic believer in this universe, it wants to ascend to the Monad, the nothing, the truest peace. It believes the physical to be worthless, and it is the gardener and winnower that as a duality are the demiurge. They have created the imperfect “real” plane of existence, and they have brought suffering.
I think bungie is actually trying to condemn in a sense gnostic thinking. They seek to be superset from the physical, to ascend above it. They do so with good intentions, like “don’t be too worried about riches, the world isn’t real anyway”. But bungie wants us to be ever present, because the real is ours, it’s all we have. They want us to live it not get lost in dreams, to suffer alongside our joy so others might have joy even at the cost of more suffering
TL;DR:the dragons and Nezarec and witness and all the other whispering voices exist in the void beyond death, a nothing space or unreality. They for different reasons in different ways tear apart reality taking advantage of our lack of purpose. Simple life has purpose because it’s only goal is to survive, but complex life can get lost not knowing what path is forward, losing purpose and direction. The only purpose that will let us stand against the witness is living for others and them for us
The endgame truly is, friendgame

Seeing a lot of theory on here about the Veil being a consciousness transport device, I was reading about Maya Sundaresh and her being involved in both the Ishtar Collective and Future War Cult got me thinking about connections.
The Ishtar Collective and later the Future War Cult had something called "The Device" which was used to explore alternate realities and futures. When reading through old lore about the device, two lines stuck out to me:
"We speak of nothing but the device. We talk about it like a demigod. When I get out of here I know the whole world will look like a fraying **veil**."
"We built the device in mimicry of the Vex gateway systems from Ishtar. An observatory, yes, but I think of it as a **mind-ship**. Capable of displacing its payload across space and time."
The device is stated to have Vex origins, however the similarities to consciousness transport between the two seems to be too much of a coincidence, especially with the Vex having such a high interest in the CloudArk which is related to the Veil.
Any thoughts on this theory? Thought it was an interesting connection. Could be a clue that The Witness not only went somewhere else in space, but in time as well.
Link to Lore:
Ghost Fragment: Vex 5

Ishtar library seems to be the best collection of lore for destiny I’ve seen, and I was wondering if there is an app version of it.
EDIT: I’m on IOS